Always (w/ Chase Ables)

Eli Price (00:02.326)
Hello and welcome to the establishing shot a podcast where we do deep dives into directors and their filmography's I am your host Eli price and we are here on episode 58 of the podcast Continuing kind of just about wrapping up our Spill early Spielberg series covering his movies of the 70s and 80s with his last movie of the 80s, which is

always. And so yeah, we're wrapping that up. I'm excited. I'll do another little episode kind of wrapping up this first part of the series before we continue with Spielberg. So I think I was kind of questioning for a while if I was going to continue with Spielberg after this or do something else before I go back to him. But I think I'm just going to jump right into Hook after a bit.

maybe do some other episodes before before that. But yeah, so we'll we'll get a few of those episodes in before the end of the year. But yeah, we're covering always today and I have my trusty brother -in -law joining me again. I think this is the third episode. This is like you've done one each each series so far. Well, no, technically both of

The others were Wes Anderson. That's true. You weren't in the Nolan series. Yeah, it was just kind of in the middle of the series. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's still third episode. So yeah. So, yeah, glad to have you back for that. but yeah, we're, we're covering, of course, Spielberg. If, if you want to hear more just about chase, you can probably go back to, I think aisle of dogs was your probably bigger introduction.

Probably. Because that was your first one. But so yeah, go back and listen to that. But since you've already been introduced in the past, why don't we just jump right into Spielberg and you can share your earliest memories of Spielberg if you if you can recall. This is a hard one to recall. You know, just

Eli Price (02:20.15)
kind of, I guess, growing up in the 90s and also my dad really liking Spielberg as a director. It's hard to pick out what my first memory with Spielberg is. I think my biggest memory early on that I can...

really draw up is us getting the box set of Indiana Jones, like some sort of, you know, like collector's edition box set of Indiana Jones DVDs. And I don't even think that it was my first time seeing those. I had probably seen Last Crusade before that. But yeah, that I remember those being under the TV and the little hutch and always thinking that they were cool and pulling them out and watching them, you know, every now and then. Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like Indiana Jones is a big first for most people. But yeah, do you have any other like big Spielberg memories growing up? Or maybe like the first time you realized like, Steven Spielberg is a thing or did you realize it back then? I may have realized it back then, even you know, back when I was like seven, eight years old. You know, I feel like

you know, Steven Spielberg and, you know, George Lucas and, you know, a couple of others there, you know, yeah, those were the kinds of names that, you know, as a child, I was like, I like these movies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Did you have was like ET and Jurassic Park? definitely. Definitely. Big part. Big part of growing up in the 90s was Jurassic Park. Certainly. Yes. Yeah. ET kind of endured the

I feel like ET was still a really big deal when I was young. I definitely have memories of ET as a kid and compounded by like memories of the ET ride at Universal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I always like when I was a teenager, the Jaws ride. Yes. Yeah, that was a fun one. At Universal, I would always like kind of like class clown. I would like put my arm in my shirt. And when Jaws came up,

Eli Price (04:40.566)
I would be on that side of the boat going like, I lost my arm. Yeah, really terrible joke, but. Do I remember right that they had the actual shark animatronic there at the ride? They had, yeah, I think so. I don't see why they wouldn't have, why waste it. Sure, yeah, get some use out of it. Yeah, I don't really know, to be honest, but it would make sense. But yeah, today we are not talking about any of those great movies.

talking about Steven Spielberg's Always just sneaking into the 1980s. And was this your this was your first time watching I'm assuming I had never heard of this before. Yeah, me either until I started this series. I had never heard of the movie Always before. You know, it's it's one of those things where it's like, there's there's a reason sometimes that

a movie within a big director's filmography is kind of like lost to memory and lost to time. But yeah, it's, it is definitely a movie. I was surprised to see that it's rated a 3 .0 on Letterboxd. I was surprised to see that too. Which is not a terrible ranking, rating to be honest. It's like right on the cusp of a movie that

Once a movie I feel like on letterbox once a movie drops below three I'm like, okay, it's probably not a good movie. But if it's like 3 .1 3 .2 I'm like, okay, this is one that like maybe some people don't like but like some people do and so I'll try it out. And so yeah, yeah, I was looking through some letterbox reviews and there's some there's some defenders of this movie. Hey, you know, I mean, it is what it is.

If you I guess that we we've already spoiled what we think about You think about this movie? But yeah, let's before we really get into that. Let's jump into kind of the beginnings of this movie. So Spielberg saw this movie Called a guy named Joe when he was a boy on TV living in Phoenix

Eli Price (07:04.726)
It was a guy named Joe is a 1943 movie 1946. That's something 43 sounds 43. I just pulled it up. Now it's a it's a movie 1943 directed by Victor Fleming. Of course, famous director of things like the Wizard of Oz. Gone with the wind. Yeah. So you know, a big director. And it starred Spencer Tracey, Spencer Tracy.

as a character Pete and Irene Dunn as the character Dorinda. And so, yeah, it's, you know, Spencer Tracy is a pretty big actor. I think Irene Dunn was too, you know, at that time. But yeah, you know, it was a pretty, I guess, well -received movie back then. Yeah, it seems to have been. Yeah.

And yeah, anyway, Spielberg sees that movie on TV and it's basically follows the same sort of format as always does. So the main difference being it's set in World War II. So it's not firefighting pilots, it's World War II pilots. And so Pete dies.

not saving a friend, but he dies kind of taking out a aircraft carrier warship kind of thing. Kind of goes down as he is taking down that ship. And then it has more of like a heavenly kind of clouds, a lot of, I guess they pumped in a lot of smoke and.

and whatnot for some cloudy looking scenes where it's like air, I guess like airman heaven or whatever. The like, I guess, head angel godlike, I guess this wouldn't be God, it's kind of like maybe head pilot angel character is like a general himself. So yeah, it's

Eli Price (09:26.582)
Yes, so it has a little bit of a different tone and feel to it. Yes, Bill Brooks sees this movie. You know he his dad was a World War Two pilot, so that's that's a connection point and then also you know it kind of has this feel of like.

Well, I will say that for later. A little bit forward in Spielberg's life. I did read that there's kind of a legend has it kind of thing where Spielberg apparently showed this as a teenager to a girlfriend at the time. Okay. And she did not like it. And he immediately broke up with her. You know, I'm, I'm assuming that Kate Capshaw,

likes a guy named Joe. And maybe as we'll maybe get into maybe Amy Irving didn't like a guy named Joe.

But yeah, so Another I know I guess a fun fact before we get more into the beginnings is So, you know Spielberg produced And you know apparently directed some of poltergeist right which was direct about Toby Hooper and Spielberg suggested that Hooper put a clip of this in that movie, I guess cuz

At that point, he wasn't necessarily like, it wasn't like a go for him to do his remake. So I guess he wanted to pay homage to it somehow. But he, he had them put a guy named Joe into poltergeist and it's like the parent, have you seen poltergeist before? I haven't, no. It's definitely worth a watch. I think it's pretty good. And yeah, so the parents are like in bed and it's like the scene when Pete is like arriving in.

Eli Price (11:25.174)
Aviator heaven or whatever and like seconds later in the movie after they're like watching the scene the like spirits like make themselves known in some way and so yeah, that's how That's a good time. Yeah. Yeah, I guess it is still it's more like it makes more sense knowing that Spielberg really loved this movie because otherwise why why Aviator heaven to

Make the connection point of spirits, but but hey, you know it is what it is. But yeah, so the idea of Spielberg remaking this movie actually started with he was talking with Richard Dreyfus on the set of Jaws in 1974 and Dreyfus loved the movie too. I guess they both kind of grew up loving it and and yeah, so they they talked about doing a remake of it and

He had sat on that idea for years and I think really launched the project of starting to work on it in 1980. And so 1980, he starts getting some screenwriters to write versions of it, basically adapting the original. So the original was...

You know, directed, of course, by Victor Fleming, but it was written by Dalton Trumbo, who at some point in the 40s kind of got blacklisted. OK. Because of like Communist Party. McCarthyism. Yeah. And so so he was blacklisted from Hollywood. And he actually did. I think there were some movies that he had like writing credits on under a different name, basically.

like her or like under someone else, like there was another person that was acting as the writer, but it was really Dalton Trumbo sort of thing. Gotcha. So I think I think it's because he was like actually a pretty good writer, but screenwriter. But obviously everybody work in Hollywood. Yeah. Everyone's just want to use them quietly. Yeah. Basically. So yeah. So they're basically adapting, working to adapt Dalton Trumbo's

Eli Price (13:51.19)
script, basically. So I think you went through like a dozen or so screenwriters trying to get this remake script done. And one of those was Jerry Belson, who ended up being the like writing the final version, got the you know, the credit screenwriting credit for the film. Yeah, I mean, almost 10 years working on this, as far as like trying to get a script and trying to get a cast together.

so yeah, I mean really something that he really wanted to do apparently. It seems that, yeah, it really seems that way that this was kind of a passion project. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. and I mean, obviously like he loved a guy named Joe was a big part of his childhood, I guess. And Hey, you know, when you're Steven Spielberg and you want to do a remake of a 1940s

World War II ghost romance, I guess, you know, I guess you get to do it. Yeah, I guess you get to do it. And it's it's funny that like, this movie didn't do all that great. But then the movie Ghost came out and did pretty well. I think shortly after, I think I think I heard somewhere that like this movie even like kind of was inspiration for the movie Ghost and a little somewhat, I guess.

So yeah, I don't know how much truth there is to that, but hey, it could be. I don't remember when Ghost came out. Do you know when Ghost came out? I do not. Yeah. Here it is. 1990. So yeah. So they were probably being made right there close to each other. So I don't know how much it could have influenced. I guess there was something in the air, though, since they're coming out one after the other.

Something about ghost romances that people in the late 80s, early 90s were just itching for. But yeah, so as they're remaking this, Spielberg made a point to not rewatch a guy named Joe because he didn't want it to, I guess, stunt his creativity in making this remake, which it makes sense. I guess he's kind of like

Eli Price (16:15.83)
going off of his memory of it, like his nostalgia for it and trying to like, I guess, capture maybe that feeling of what he has in his memory of this movie instead of like rewatching it and studying it and trying to like do what it did sort of thing. I guess is. That makes sense. Yeah.

But yeah, he did reject staying true to the original setting, which was, you know, 1943, because he didn't want to lose younger audiences. Apparently he thought like the historical and emotional references, like specific to that period, weren't really relevant. And I kind of disagree with that. I feel like if he would have done, if he would have done that, it would have done just as well, probably. Probably. I don't, I don't know why.

I don't know. I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't around for 19. I came around in the early nineties. So I was around, especially not around enough to like know what was relevant and what would or not wouldn't connect with younger audiences. But I don't know when I was young, I could connect with World War II films. So I could too, but it was, yeah. I mean, it was.

a lot more recent back then maybe, you know, he's even thinking of himself. Like you said, his dad was a World War II veteran. Maybe he's thinking of his own context and going like, yeah, movies about that time period don't really resonate with me. Why would they resonate with people younger than me? Yeah. Yeah, it could be. Yeah. I just, I just thought that was odd personally. But yeah. So his, he had, he was friends with Penny Marshall, who was a director. She directed big.

which Spielberg was connected to at one point. And then I think a couple years later, she directed a league of their own. So yeah, she had the idea to basically like transpose the setting to the like water bomber pilots, like the firefighting pilots basically. And so yeah, he took that idea and ran with it and yeah, they...

Eli Price (18:34.71)
That's the big diff. I guess that's the big differences like the setting and there's some there's some other differences that we'll get into later when we're talking about maybe what doesn't work about the movie. Sure. But yeah, I think that's the biggest maybe difference is the setting and some of the problems are because of that difference. I think which again we'll get into. But yeah, they do both end with the same like line and visuals of

you know, the kind of that's my girl, that's my boy walking into the sunset Hollywood kind of traditional Hollywood ending kind of thing. So I guess that was like, I guess Spielberg was kind of paying homage to the that Hollywood ending tradition with with sticking to that same ending. Yeah. The.

One of the, you know, I wrote down to like a couple of other things in the script that were like fairly different that it took more liberties with was one was I feel like the kind of Pete Durando romance was more central in this remake than it was in the old movie. It certainly is very similar. I didn't get a chance to catch up with.

a guy named Joe, but it's certainly very central in this. Yes. And it's not that it's not a big part of a guy named Joe, but everything revolves around it and always. And in a guy named Joe, there's enough of separation of things where everything doesn't hinge on that, I guess.

And then, yeah, the other big thing would be it's obviously got a much more like, it keeps like trying to return to a more comedic tone throughout the movie. And the old movie had like kind of that typical, you know, 1940s movie like jokes every once in a while, but it didn't, it wasn't like changing tone to a comedic tone when it was doing it was just like, it never feels schlocky. Yeah, it's just.

Eli Price (20:59.158)
Well, I mean, yeah, not in the way that this movie does it. This movie, like it'll like completely switch back and forth, like whiplash tone between like kind of being like slapstick comedy to like drama romance. And the other one was just like, that was a funny, like one liner in the middle of that scene sort of thing, which was I feel like it's typical of that time period in movies.

but yeah, the, they did have to obviously get together a cast as well. Richard Dreyfus is plays obviously Pete Sandich. which I think is a funny last name that makes me want a sandwich. I can see why. yeah, he, so, but Spielberg originally wanted, Paul Newman.

and Robert Redford for Pete and Ted. So for the mentor mentee kind of thing. And from what I gathered, they both wanted to play Pete. Like neither of them wanted to play Ted. And nothing I researched said that that's why they didn't ever sign on. It meant, like I've heard mention of that, both of them wanted to play Pete.

But I can only imagine that that was the main reason Heather maybe signed on was they like they both wanted to play Pete and if You know if one of them had to play Ted they were just like nah, I'm good It's still a little funny that he didn't hire either of them for Pete. Yeah So, you know because of that there there must have been other reasons maybe they had other projects they would would have rather done at the time or

You know, they could have like been like, yeah, I'll look at it and read the script and be like, no, not for me. But who knows? Who knows why it didn't work out? It would have I feel like it would have been a very different movie. It would have been with with Paul Newman. I feel like it might have been pretty good with with Paul Newman and Robert Redford. Yeah.

Eli Price (23:26.23)
You know, Richard Dreyfus is Richard Dreyfus, but I feel like he's kind of on a way lower tier than Paul Newman and Robert Redford. Yeah. As a kind of an actor in general, I guess. But yeah, he's fine. He's Richard Dreyfus. Yeah. You know. Yeah, so he does, Spielberg does end up going back to Dreyfus, who

you know, he had originally, you know, started talking about it with back in 74. So I guess all along, he kind of knew like, well, I can always, I guess, ask Dreyfus to do it if nobody else is going to do it for me. So yeah, this this ends up being their like third and final team up between Jaws and Close Encounters and then later on this. So to two 70s movies and then and the late 80s movie, very late 80s movie. So yeah.

Holly Hunter plays Dorinda Durstin, the romantic counterparts to Dreyfus's Pete. And for a while, Deborah Winger was kind of first in line for this part. She's probably most popular for Terms of Endearment, which I haven't seen. I haven't seen that. But she was actually an ET, technically. Uncredited, she was like an extra. I think it was like on Halloween, she was like,

dressed like a zombie and holding a dog, walking by the kids, you know, as they're going out to quote unquote trick or treat. That's fun. Yeah. So, so it's technically not her first Spielberg movie. It wouldn't have been her first movie. And yeah, it, you know, ET remained her only Spielberg movie. So there you go. They ended up going with Holly Hunter.

The thing about this movie is with pretty much every other Spielberg movie I've I've researched there was there was like read a lot of readily available information and with always it's been a little bit harder. And so like usually you'll have like Spielberg saw this person in here. He really liked their their you know their part here. And with this there's just like for like

Eli Price (25:52.822)
John Goodman and Holly Hunter. There's like none of that. It's the researchers like, they wanted this person, but then Holly Hunter got the job. I'm like, so I had found a little short series of press interviews. Okay. Yeah. Holly Hunter specifically, he saw her in broadcast news. Okay. Well, yeah, everybody did. He saw a rough cut of broadcast news and like immediately wrote her agent and was like, I want you for Dorinda apparently. Okay. Well, there you go. So

Which makes sense because she was nominated for broadcast news for her supporting role. That was 1987 movie by James Brooks. I have not seen broadcast news. It's been on my list to see. Same for a long time and I just have not gotten around to it. Always heard great things about it. Yeah. So yeah, maybe I'll put that, move that up my list to watch soon. But yeah, she did win like New York and LA Film Critics Awards too for her.

part of that movie. So and then she did she did win for the lead role in The Piano in 1994 is a Jane Campion movie. Very, very, very good movie. And what's funny is she's mute. yeah. Well, so Holly Hunter did not win for her typical typical Holly Hunterness. She won for the character that was mute, basically. So

That sounds fascinating. Yeah, it's a very, very good movie that she's the lead in. So yeah. Yeah, I would definitely check out the piano and pretty much anything Jane Campion does is pretty good. So yeah, that's Holly Hunter. John Goodman, of course, plays the best friend of Pete Al Yaki, which all of these like last names I didn't really even know until I looked at the cast list. Yeah.

Yeah. But yeah, John Goodman, you know, John Goodman was kind of just in a bunch of stuff. Like he I feel like John Goodman never really got enough recognition for like his film work. I think he won some Emmys maybe I think for his work, like I would assume from like Roseanne and maybe some other tea. I know he did some like stints on SNL, like hosting and stuff.

Eli Price (28:21.59)
I feel like he just always plays really good supporting roles in the movies. Yeah. He's usually solid. Yeah. And, but yeah, he had just been in raising Arizona with Holly Hunter. So it's like the connection point between them two. They do have very good chemistry in this movie. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. you know, I guess, unlike how I feel about.

Holly Hunter didn't write your trifles, but Hey, you know, or Holly Hunter and her other love interest, who I assume you're about to Johnson. Yeah. Yeah. Brad Johnson plays Ted Baker. and so Ted Baker is like the mentee, obviously the young guy that Dreyfus comes back to, to mentor as a aviator angel kind of thing, I guess. Yeah.

And the plot of this movie is, well, I suppose it is for a guy named Joe too, but I guess it works there. But it's so strange. It's strange in a guy named Joe too. Don't get me wrong. We'll get into it for sure. But yeah, so they, I guess after Newman and Redford fell through, he really wanted Tom Cruise to play Ted Baker. I can see that. Which would have been interesting. Yeah. I don't know how he would have worked with Richard Dreyfuss.

That feels like it would have been weird But but hey he wanted it but Tom Cruise turned it the roll down and I feel like he made a good choice But yeah, Brad Johnson was just kind of known as an ad model he was the I know he was like the Marvel and man at one point And yeah, good -looking dude ad model. Mm -hmm apparently I

which I think we have different, we have heard different stories about Brad Johnson spilling stuff. I think we have. I read a story where when Brad Johnson met Steven Spielberg, I can't remember where they met, but apparently he clumsily spilled some of his coffee on Spielberg and it's like partly why he ended up getting the job for Ted. So yeah, what did you read?

Eli Price (30:47.094)
So the story that I heard in his press interview, he talked about after his original audition, he gets called back for screen tests with Holly Hunter. And instead of the casting director, Kathleen Kennedy was over the screen tests.

He kept calling her the casting director's name, which I've forgotten now, which is a shame, but both of their last names are Kennedy. So he kept calling Laura Kennedy. Laura Kennedy. Thank you. He kept calling Kathleen Kennedy Laura and he also had a full Dr. Pepper and spilled it all over her. I would love to think that both stories are true. Hey, because they make him very clumsy. If one of them is true, then

It's you know, it's fairly likely that both are true. If you're clumsy, you're clumsy, you know? Yeah. But yeah, that's great. Which apparently he used to be a professional rodeo cowboy. That's not a good professional to a good profession to be clumsy in. You know, you know, maybe the weird clumsy balance maybe works when you're on a bull. Maybe so.

So yeah, I do. I did read that he was a rodeo fan, but I didn't read that he road bulls himself. So yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I mean, as Brad Johnson, he is he's in the movie. That's about all you can say for him. President of the counter for yes. A big star, though. Coming up next on the cast list is Audrey Hepburn, who plays the character of Hap.

apparently Spielberg had originally wanted Sean Connery to play the role, which in the, you know, in the original, it is a guy that plays that sort of figure. Yeah. You said he was a general. Yeah. He was like a general, apparently somebody that they would have heard of because he acted like starstruck. He was like, he was a great pilot sort of thing. so I don't know if that character was based on a real person that no idea, but,

Eli Price (33:11.798)
But yeah, he wanted Connery. Connery was unavailable. I don't know how he gets connected with. Did you see anything about? I did not. Yeah, I don't know how he gets Audrey Hepburn to come out of retirement. You know, it feels like it's maybe one of those things where like he was like, I would love to work with Audrey Hepburn and just maybe she heard about it and was like, yeah, I'd love to work with Spielberg, you know, sort of thing. Maybe so. That's that's pretty typical in Hollywood when you have like a big star and like a big name director.

And they're like, yeah, I would love to work with this person. A lot of times, they work out something. Sure. And it seems like it was very, not low effort in the sense of her performance, but just in the sense of the working environment as a whole. Apparently, they just flew her out to Montana for two weeks. She worked for four days. Yeah, she was in Washington. OK. Yeah. And I think she was on set for.

a week or two in total. But yeah, even just a week or two of shooting is not not that terrible. So yeah, but she yeah, she was 60 at the time and pretty much retired like her last movie had been Peter Bogdanovich's They All Laughed, which I haven't seen from that came out in 81. So I've been eight, eight years, eight years since she was in a movie. But yeah, she the cool thing is she was paid $1 million for her role.

and she donated all of her pay to UNICEF. So all $1 million that she earned went to UNICEF. So I thought that was really cool. That is really cool. A few other characters that I wanted to know, Marg or Marge, it doesn't have an E, so I'm not sure if it's Marg or Marge, but Marg Hellenberger plays the character Rachel, which we might talk a little bit about. She's kind of...

I think she's, I remember her being redheaded girl that kind of like is flirting with Ted Baker in the movie. She's like a mechanic or something. Yeah, yeah, something like that. But yeah, that's that actress don't think she went on to do really anything else. Roberts Blossom is in the movie he is returning. He plays Dave, which I would

Eli Price (35:36.502)
not have remembered that this character was Dave, but the homeless guy that they run into is Robert Splossom. And he's kind of a I kind of forgot that it happened. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, it's not that memorable. And yeah, anyway, Robert Splossom played the farmer in Close Encounters. That's kind of like out on the road waiting for the aliens to come by.

And then he played a role as like a grandfather in the episode of in one of Steven Spielberg's episodes of amazing stories that he directed called Ghost Train, which is interesting. It's it's an interesting episode. So he's kind of a guy that Spielberg uses every once in a while. But yeah, Dave, the homeless guy.

Yeah, that scene was strange, much like a lot of the movie. And I don't really understand what the point of it was. I guess it's just to let him know that he can influence the world as a ghost. Yeah. But they could have found a different way to do that. Yeah, it's weird.

Yeah, anyways, Keith, I do want to point out Keith David plays powerhouse, one of the kind of other pilots in training. But yeah, Keith David, good actor. He's I've seen him. He's one of those kind of that guys, you know, just pops up and things. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, I can't think it's one of those things where you can't think of it off the top of your head. Yeah. So he's in he's in the thing he's in.

Requiem for a dream. He's in nope. He's in Mr. And Mrs. Smith. He's an American fiction. He's voices things in Hercules and Princess and the Frog platoon Armageddon, you know, just just a bunch of random stuff Kind of one of those guys you're like, yeah, that's that guy from that thing The only other Guy that pops up fairly often. I'm pretty sure it's this character Don

Eli Price (38:01.11)
but played by Dale die Who's like the air traffic controlman that Holly hunter talks to a lot kind of the older guy It's I was like I want to I want to know that guy and in here, but I'm like scrolling through the cast list I'm like, I guess that's this guy. I don't know the character's name and I think this guy kind of looks like him

I think you're probably right. So yeah, Del Dye plays Don, who's the only other kind of character of note that I can think of in the movie. So yeah, that's the cast. Of the crew, of course, Spielberg, Kathleen Kennedy, Frank Marshall produce it, the trio. We mentioned Jerry Belson, who wrote the final draft of the screenplay.

There were some second unit directors. Frank Marshall did some of the Montana sequences. And then this guy named James Gavin did some aerial sequences in the movie as director. So that's pretty cool. The DP, the director of photography or cinematographer, whatever you want to call it, was Michael Solomon. Michael Solomon? Michael? I don't know.

-I -K -A -E -L. There you go. Who worked with James Cameron on the movie The Abyss. OK. And which is a very good looking movie. And yeah, James Cameron recommended him to Spielberg and Spielberg invited him to his place and met with them. And they actually like sat down to watch the best together. You know, Spielberg obviously has a little theater at his house. Sure.

at this point in his career and yeah, they're watching the abyss and apparently 20 minutes in he's like, okay, you got the job. So there you go. And this is a really good looking movie. It is. It looks really good. Yeah. It's him as the cinematographer and who did you say directed the aerial sequences? James Gavin. James. They both did their jobs phenomenally. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And you know,

Eli Price (40:22.678)
The how well this movie looks is probably my favorite thing about it. It's like the one thing that I'll like brag on probably about the movie. But yeah, I just think it just really, really looks incredible. And you borrowed my Blu -ray. And apparently, you know, the blue I had seen someone say like the Blu -ray update just like looks great. And I'd have to agree. I haven't seen it not in Blu -ray.

Because I've never seen it before but I know you had said you had rented the DVD for not rented But I got in the DVD from the library for the bonus features, but I guess that's all you really yeah I didn't watch it again or or watch any of it on the DVD version, but no commentary track No, there was no bonus features. I don't blame them for that The bonus features was was text likes you scroll through text on the DVD menu was the bonus features

But it was something that you might see if there's a little booklet sometimes in a DVD and someone wrote some production notes about the movie. That's basically all that was there for bonus features. Yeah. When you have a movie, like always, I guess you don't really invest that much money in putting together, I guess not, special features. There were some.

So these are some other guys I guess that we should note is there were some more directors of photography specifically for the aerial shots. Frank Holgate and Alexander Witt were those guys. I applaud them. Yeah, very well done. I don't often know the camera operator, but for some reason it was in my resource book that's kind of up here above my head. It noted the camera operator. So I guess we should give Paul Babiney a shout out.

Of course, so we have some big times Spielberg collabs and Michael Kahn as the editor sure edited most Spielberg things the vast majority of his things and then same thing for John Williams for the score Which is I found that this was a really really solid score like yeah. Yeah Like it was 1941 a lot of people liked the score and I didn't really care for it but like I feel like John Williams just kind of

Eli Price (42:46.87)
Either makes like super something super iconic or something that's just like super solid. Like this was all does its job. Yeah. So John Williams pumping out another 80 score for this one. Ben Burt of Star Wars and Indiana Jones fame does the sound. And I think he doesn't sound for alien to. Yeah.

I thought I heard some some X -wing sound effects at one point. X -wing I heard lights. I noted in my notes lightsaber said that maybe what I'm thinking. I just you know, I remember thinking Star Wars. That was it was definitely it's like it's during one of the plane sequences. Some like landing gear like comes out and like knocks something or like gets hit with something. There's something with the landing gear and it makes this like

the sound, I think it's the sound that like lightsabers make when they clash. It's like the kzshh, kzshh. Yes, that was it. Yeah. And the landing, like the landing gear made that noise. And I was like, that was a lightsaber noise. And I didn't, I hadn't looked at the crew yet, but I was like, I bet Ben Burt did the sound for this movie. And sure enough, Ben Burt, there he is, Ben Burt. There are also some guys that are kind of collo...

They did some collaborations with Spielberg too, doing the film sound editing effects. Richard Hems, who won an award with Ben Burt for Last Crusade. And he did some future movies with Spielberg too for sound. And then Gary Rydstrom also did some future work with Spielberg into the 90s and 2000s.

James Bissell is returning from ET as the production designer. Okay. So I think it's pretty good production design, I think. yeah. Art direction, Christopher Burian Moore, who apparently worked on some stuff in Amazing Stories. Richard Reynolds was another art director. He did some future set design for Spielberg. Richard Fernandez, too.

Eli Price (45:08.054)
Alan Miranick, assume I'm pronouncing that right, was the costume designer. She had a pretty huge career. I was looking at her filmography and she just did a ton of costume work. But she was, I didn't know she was nominated for Oppenheimer for a costume. So she was the costume designer for Oppenheimer. Didn't win, but she was nominated. Michael Wood.

Yeah, Michael, I was trying to see if there was an S on there. Michael Wood does the special effects supervision. He also worked on Jaws, Poltergeist, Twilight Zone. So he's kind of worked with Spielberg before for special effects. Visual effects is a guy named Bruce Nicholson, who had done a lot of visual effects work with Star Wars and Indiana Jones, I think Close Encounters. So probably an ILM guy, George Lucas's.

company, special effects company. And then aerial sequence designer, a guy named Joe Johnston, who did a lot of visual effects work for Star Wars. And I think he worked on Raiders too. So a lot of probably an ILM guy too. And then, yeah, we did mention the casting by Laura Kennedy.

It is what it is, the casting. So it is. Richard, I don't, I would say probably Richard Dreyfuss is the strangest casting, but I don't think that's her fault. I don't think that's her fault either. Yeah. That seems to have been like, I feel like Holly Hunter is, is she does pretty well with what she has to work with John Goodman. Same. I don't know how much of a decision she had made with Brad Johnson.

So we'll put we'll lay that on her that was her fault. Sure. Yeah, Dreyfus seems to have been Spielberg's call directly. Yeah. Yeah. You know, hey, it was Dreyfus love the movie too. Yeah, they got there. They were friends. They got to do the remake together. Yeah.

Eli Price (47:25.43)
But yeah, so yeah, that's the crew. Let's move into the production. A year, so before we even get to the production, a year before productions kicks off in 1988, there were these forest fires in Yellowstone National Park. It was like a big thing. Like you can just type in Yellowstone fires and it'll probably come up like the 1988.

forest fires that went through Yellowstone. And they sent out two aircraft to capture footage of those real forest fires, which are used in the movie. Gotcha. Yeah. So just kind of like, I guess, the irony of death giving way to life in art that happens at times for art.

But yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, you wish there wasn't a rampant forest fire in Yellowstone, but also they got their. Yeah, might as well take advantage of it while you have it. Yeah, might as well use it. So yeah, it kicks off production in May of 1989. So they shot from May to August in 1989, and then August to December for the turnaround for post -

post -production. So they really like, I feel like this is something that's just different from back then to now is movies take longer to get released now than they used to. Because this is, it's the same thing with like a lot of these like eighties movies that Spielberg did was like he would shoot them in like the beginning part of the year and then they were released in like the summer or shoot them in the middle of the year and they were released in December. It's like, man, there's

That would never happen today. Yeah, which is a bit of a shame, but yeah, yeah it is stuff gets caught in like production hell and ends up not as good as it should be because because of that mm -hmm yeah So yeah, they they begin in Montana near Kootenai National Forest This small town Libby. I think was kind of one of the central spots

Eli Price (49:51.382)
and Libby and some of the surrounding towns provided a lot of like the extras for the volunteer firefighters and I think I read I read two different numbers in one place I read a hundred and over a hundred and fifty people and in another place I read five hundred which is a big big difference I would based on what I saw in the movie a hundred and fifty makes more sense it doesn't look like

there was over 500 people. So yeah, 150 over 150 extras from these like towns around Libby, Montana. And, you know, they there was a

There was some sort of remote airfield in Libby that James Bissell, the production designer, really liked the look of. And so that's where they did all the Montana airfield sequences was at this. It was used, but the air traffic was very infrequent. So they didn't really have a lot of like.

They didn't have to worry a ton about being interrupted, like the shooting from aircraft, like actual aircraft landing. Yeah, they weren't inconveniencing anybody. Right. So yeah, the fire scenes were filmed on already burned land in Yellowstone. So yeah, again, taking advantage of that. There's a water sequence in the opening scene and at the end.

And those were shot at Bull Lake in Montana. So a lot of Montana shooting. And then they moved on to Washington state. So everything that was shot that was supposed to be set in that Colorado tent, like airfield or whatever, is actually in Washington state. It's at a World War II training base in Ephrata, Washington. OK.

Eli Price (52:02.71)
And it's like it's kind of has a desert like feel to the area which Another was another thing like James Bissell was like, I like the contrast between like Montana and this more desert like area And so yeah It is a good fit for like lowland parts of Colorado. yeah for sure Yeah, and then yeah, that's

I think the area in Washington was close to Spokane because that's where they shot Hepburn's final shots was somewhere around Spokane, Washington. Okay. And she, the outfit she wore was from her own wardrobe, which is really cool, I think. And I read that the crew like would carry her around on a stretcher for like the two weeks that she was on set.

so that her outfit could stay really pristine and nice. Which makes sense for the character, because she's an angelic kind of character. You want her to look pristine. sure. But also, it's fitting because it's Audrey Hepburn. It's like, why not carry her around like a queen? Absolutely. So I loved that. And I love that it was her own outfit.

I think that's great. I've touched on a little bit production design stuff. I didn't run into a lot in my research. I did see that Spielberg did specifically request World War II planes for the film. This is a quote from Spielberg. He said, I wanted the story to be somewhat timeless. A lot of the old World War II bomber pilots have kept their old airplanes or at least restored bought and used parts and turned them into firefighting equipment.

I thought that would give a timeless feeling. It's a contemporary movie. It feels like it's set in the 40s, but in fact, it is set today. And I think he's probably right there. It does feel like it's not set today, even though it is. Yeah, so I thought that was cool. He got those. These are like actual planes that they had turned like that. A lot of these pilots had turned into firefighting planes. That is really cool. Yeah. And it's a nice

Eli Price (54:26.966)
through line with a guy named Joe. Yeah, absolutely. That connection point to you. So a little bit of special effects stuff I found the info, of course, the inflight choreography by James Gavin that we talked about. He had worked in TV and film for like 25 years prior to this. And I guess we had it, you know, just had a great name. And I think he did. Yeah, the aerial sequences are really good. yeah.

Did you read if that was like a specialization of his was like? Yeah, I kind of looked in. I looked a little bit at his filmography, but it didn't really. It didn't look like, he's doing a lot of plain stuff necessarily. And actually, I think he did a lot of like acting too. And he was a pilot in some of the things he acted in. OK, so he probably was a pilot himself. And that would make sense. Yeah.

Yeah, the this and then so the other thing about these planes where they were really big and heavy and so they look at yeah, they can fly at lower speeds because of that and Which makes it easier to like hit your targets with the fire retardant? So that's I guess practical for real life and also for shooting a movie I guess less takes you have to do When you can be more accurate

The other special effects thing I found in my research was about the creation of the forest fires. So the forest fires, forest, obviously you don't really want to set fire to anything. No. Because it's not controllable. And you can't control, not only can you not control the fire, but you can't control if you can get a good camera angle to shoot it. So it's just.

Yeah, you just don't want to set a real fire. But Mike Wood, who was the special effects coordinator that I mentioned, with his expertise, they were able to create these, like, their own trees, basically, that would light on fire on cue. And so it didn't go what I read didn't go into exactly how that worked.

Eli Price (56:53.526)
There's a lot of, like so for instance in Last Crusade, when they were in the room that was on fire, Ford and Connery, there were basically like these pipes that had gas running through them and they would light it and then you can turn the gas off and it would go out. And so it's probably something similar with the trees that they've made. Obviously they didn't use any trees that were still alive.

But yeah And and then I did the one of the co -producers dig vein He had given credit to the US Forest Service and local representatives for you know there, you know Basically like their cooperation like helped with them doing this successfully obviously but yeah, I I Don't have as much research on this movie as I usually do it's just

I don't know. It was just hard to find a whole lot. I wish I had more more info on like what they used for like the aerial shots. I just like didn't really find a whole lot. Like how did they mount the cameras? Like what did what sort of things were they doing as far as that goes? And I just don't know. That's a shame because that's the that's the parts of the movie that I would love to know about. Yeah, I know they did some work in

on the Universal and Lorimer studios lots. So some of it might be projection stuff in studio. Sure. I would guess most of the stuff where they're getting close -ups inside of playing cockpits is probably in a studio with projection behind them or something. That would make sense. Speaking of the studio work, one thing that I

Spielberg mentioned in one of those press interviews was a lot of the soundstage work they were able to do on the same soundstage that guy named Joe had been shot on. that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, that is really cool. So yeah, another little connection there. Yeah, as far as like camera work, it's yeah, I just didn't find anything. I wish I had. It's obviously like you've got a lot of like typical Spielberg.

Eli Price (59:20.374)
looking shots and that sort of thing. But yeah, I just I wish I would have found more information about that because that's the part of the movie. Like you said, that is actually like really good. Would have been cool to see more about how they made that happen. But hey, it is what it is. Yeah, it's the movie always that most people have never heard of. So. But yeah, the movie was released in the US December 22nd, 1989. So like I said, just.

Squeaking in and this is five months after the last crusade. So last crusade I come out in the summer and five months later you get Always so yeah, there you go I did read that the budget was right around 30 million I guess And it did make a worldwide box office of 74 million. Hey, not really that's what he died a financial flop so

Yeah, I mean, it's got Spielberg, it's got Dreyfus and Holly Hunter and John Goodman. Yeah, John Goodman was one of the... You can get people in seats with that. Yeah, he was huge at the time. Yeah. The reception was obviously pretty divided, critically. Some people kind of saw it as like having a simple charm to it, which I guess I kind of get. Yeah.

It didn't work that way for me, but I guess I can understand that viewpoint. Sure. That's that's kind of how I felt about watching a guy named Joe. That felt to me like it had kind of a simple charm. This didn't have that same feeling for me, but hey, others focused in on his inability to like dramatize love stories or like build any sort of sexual tension and.

I definitely agree with that. Yeah. Roger Ebert himself wrote this quote. This is Spielberg's weakest film since 1941, unquote. And he doesn't mean the year 1941. He means the movie, the movie 1941. But, yeah, I'd have to agree with Ebert there as well. Yeah. A lot of reviews kind of talked about how it's it's like stuck between old fashioned writing and kind of trying to

Eli Price (01:01:46.23)
create a contemporary fairy tale. And I kind of get that too. I can definitely see that. It's like it's, it never really gets a full grasp on the fantasy aspect of the movie, I think. And you're like, you're like being pulled between these kind of more, it's like true to life, like fire sequences, and then like back to like these weird.

kind of overbaked romance sequences and then like, I guess like dream weird heaven in a wheat field sequences. You know? Yeah. I don't know. It's, it's, yeah. It's, it's being thrown you around all over the place. obviously it didn't really get any awards. It did get a couple of Saturn award nominations for writing and best fantasy.

I don't understand. Saturn Awards are like, it's basically like the Academy Awards for like genre films. It started off as being like horror and fantasy focused in sci -fi, I think. But I think they recognize now like other like genre stuff to be added. I don't really know. Yeah. Nominated for writing. You know.

I don't get it, but hey, it didn't get actual Oscar nominations. So yeah, that's really all I have as far as that part of our talk goes. But somehow I don't think this was the 89 movie that Amblin was pushing for awards. Yeah, it's definitely a movie.

a point a little film with Harrison Ford and Sean Connery probably probably. But you know, yeah. Yeah, let's move into some just like key points of discussion around the movie. Okay, the first being connections with Spielberg's like personal life, which I think, you know, we can we can dig into this. So you know, you could

Eli Price (01:04:10.646)
You can like, there's not really much to dig into here other than the just like raising the question of like, did Spielberg originally connect with this movie as a child because like he saw like a breaking up or a distancing happening between his parents. It's like, maybe, maybe. But all you can really do is like raise that question. He can't really answer it. But the other the big thing that was happening

while he was making this movie was his relationship with Amy Irving was kind of deteriorating. They had married in. Man, I can't remember now. It wasn't that long ago at this point. It was maybe several years ago. And I do know that he was he had his first child, Max, when they were starting to shoot the color purple.

which came out 1985. So yeah, probably about four to five years they had been married at this point. And yeah, they basically like, as you can imagine, it's Amy Irving for one, like isn't used to, like the grandiose lifestyle, I guess isn't really her thing. And it, like Spielberg was living this like grand lifestyle.

Yeah. And then on top of that, she's an actress and it's kind of this thing where like Spielberg doesn't necessarily like want to cast her in a bunch of his movies because because like getting like accused of nepotism. Sure. But then like other directors don't want to like cast her in their movies because it's like, we don't want to like mess with Spielberg's wife. So like she she wasn't getting a lot of work. She wasn't like really I guess I guess they weren't happy with.

way the relationship was going. And so yeah, that's that's kind of going on during the production of this movie. And then as production is ending in August of 89, they announced their divorce. So there wasn't anything like disclosed about it. But if you like, if you just assume like, she got half of his worth, she probably walked away with like $100 billion at that time. Yeah. So yeah, which you know, it seems like

Eli Price (01:06:37.334)
So they were very like, it seemed like they were pretty cordial, at least publicly. It's known that they made arrangements to make sure none of the, one of them was always with Max, their son, if the other was away working. And so I don't think there was any super ill will between, it didn't seem like that sort of divorce. But I don't know, it could have been, who knows?

but then yeah, so, so all of that, and then like in a guy named Joe, Pete learns that, you know, life goes on if you lose, lose a loved one. and the dead live on, you know, in the memories of their nearest and dearest. And so, you know, relating that to divorce, it's kind of like this picture of divorce, not being like the end, but like the next stepping stone to like.

the land of memory, I guess, like it your love lives on and you move on, I guess. Sure. And so that could be something rattling around inside of Spielberg as he's making this movie. And that's kind of like. The reason why this movie is the way it is, I guess, maybe. So, yeah, it is another movie that is controversial as far as like.

Its reception would be Temple of Doom. And that was like, that was Spielberg and Lucas's breakup movie. They both have like big breakups. Yeah, Spielberg with a girlfriend and Lucas with a divorce as they were making Temple of Doom. So, right. So this is, I guess, Spielberg's second breakup movie. I guess you could say. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have any thoughts on that?

One kind of personal connection thing that he mentions in an interview is like as far as the supernatural stuff in the movie goes, he mentions a memory he has of a dream he had as a kid shortly after his grandfather died, where his grandfather like comes into the room and it's like looking down at him in the bed and yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, which feels like very

Eli Price (01:09:04.63)
Spielberg as a kid. Yeah. To have that as a memory. Yeah. So that's that's probably, you know, that's maybe a reason why he likes the idea of that. Maybe so of this sort of thing happening. He did. I did write have a quote from him somewhere. Let me find it. Yeah, he he wrote he this is something that Spielberg said describing the movie.

He said it's a story of life and love and how love connects even after someone is gone It's a romance that spans two worlds one present and one ever present There's something about the idea that someone could be just over your shoulder getting through to you even though you can't see or hear him I'm I guess like I Kind of get that but at the same time. I'm like I was still kind of weird

But you know, it's not sure that he's making that point as well as he thinks he is. Yeah, that's one. He's just. He's so sentimental. And so like with that in mind, like you like he had, I guess you have to interpret that through that the lens of like Spielberg to extreme sentimentalism. So, yeah. And in that way, like I kind of understand it. But yeah, just the way it's he he.

talks about it in that quote is it's still strange to me, you know, sure. But yeah, another thing is there's just, you know, early on in the series, I talked about how Spielberg has often said that, especially like early on his movies were kind of like his therapy. He was always like working on

working out stuff that was inside of him in his movies. You know, you see a lot of that, you know, and stuff like Jaws and Close Encounters and like a lot of his early stuff. And I think some of that is coming out here just like anxieties about death and like the ending of one part of your life in the beginning of another like transition times is definitely like there's a lot of like working through that sort of those sort of like

Eli Price (01:11:28.886)
life circumstances in this movie, just with a weird premise around it. And then I did read that when he was promoting the movie, he was like pretty elusive about all that personal stuff. I can't say I blame him for wanting to not talk about his personal life. As he probably should, you know. But he he claimed that like

He really just wanted to tell a story about inspiration and like inner voices that guide artists creatively. And, you know, that's to me, that sounds like, well, that's very personal, too. You know, it's it just it makes the film all the more personal, knowing that he thought about it from that angle as well. Because, you know, Spielberg does talk about like his influences of like Louise that came.

Before him movies that he loved as a child like that's a big deal for first Spielberg. So absolutely. Yeah Let's

Let's talk about problems with the film and then we'll end on maybe more, maybe some more positive. Let's try to like do some, let's try to do a sandwich of positive, negative, positive. Okay. I guess like, I guess we didn't really have a whole lot of positive. So it'll just be negative and then we'll try to end with more positive. So yeah, let's, let's, let's kind of go through some.

problems with the film. The first being that I mentioned earlier, kind of the disconnect of the original movie and this movie. Where does that disconnect come from? Because they're mostly the very same, similar plot wise. The setting is very different, obviously. And then like there's we talked about like maybe the romance is more prominent and always has

Eli Price (01:13:34.582)
It flips tones to comedic more often. But I wanted to read, you know, try to dissect a little bit more why the old movie was maybe more successful than this. And I wrote down this quote from critic Pauline Kale. She said, quote, Spielberg has caught the surface mechanics of 40s movies, but he seems to have no grasp of how they worked, of the simplicity

That made them affecting he starts out with too much danger in one episode after another and he overcooks everything in a fast stressful style all he seems to want to do in each scene is get an audience reaction and I kind of think that's one of the big problems is like in every scene you can feel like Spielberg really really like trying to ring out something some reaction in you

And that can work for some people, honestly. Some people are affected by directors that are really trying to get something out of you. That is just not something that works with me. And Spielberg is a very sentimental director. And he does wear emotions on the sleeves of his movies, often.

E .T. is like that, but E .T. is very affecting to me, you know. And this just isn't. And I almost wonder if like the setting is a big part of that. Like, so obviously like force fires are dangerous. Sure. You know, volunteer firefighting is like honorable, but it's just not the same as.

Pilot in World War two. No, it's not the danger and the self -sacrifice Just doesn't ring the same and it doesn't have the same like effect on You as like an American viewer or like it's just not the same and I feel like The stakes never feel up to par with what Spielberg's trying to do in the movie. Yeah, I agree you know and

Eli Price (01:15:54.55)
I feel like that's, it's not like it's done like extremely well in a guy named Joe, in my opinion, but it's, the setting helps a ton. You can almost, yeah, I can imagine that you could almost take it for granted in that one. Yes. Here it needs to feel learned and it's not feeling earned. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, and I just, there's also this kind of like, so,

I'm trying to Spencer Tracy in the original who plays Pete. He's kind of like he's got this like old movie charm to him that Richard Dreyfuss just does not have. Dreyfuss just does not have charm. No, he has more like jerk quality to him. And like that that plays really well in some movies like in Jaws. I love Richard Dreyfuss like he's kind of like.

cocky jerk in Jaws, but like it really works well in the dynamic of those three main dudes. Right. And here, like a lot of times he's just like, man, that guy's a jerk. Yeah. You're like, man, why, why aren't they friends with him? and then like,

So like Pete and a guy named Joe, like there's a very early sequence where like he's walking in these kids like call him over and they're like wanting to hear about like flying and all this. And it's like this really like very early in the movie thing where like you kind of see a side of Pete that's like very endearing and sweet. And like these children love him and he loves these children and they kind of have this secret where he tells them about like flying and

being a war pilot and they don't tell anyone that he told them about it sort of thing. And it's cute and fun. And that sort of thing is absent in this movie. And that's maybe another thing that is a problem is the character development. It's very uncharacteristically bad character development, in my opinion, for the most part.

Eli Price (01:18:08.438)
For Pete especially. It's super hard to grasp his motivations as a character. Why he's doing the things he's doing, why he's not doing something like saying I love you. I never really understood why this dude can't just tell her he loves her. Right. Especially if they're at the point in their relationship where they're ready to move across the country with each other and start their lives over together.

Why can't, why isn't he saying, like, why isn't he expressing his emotions to her? Yeah. And then like, he's like, you know, there's the scene where there, he's gotten the offer to move to Flat Rock, Colorado and be an instructor and get out of the air in the danger. And like, she's trying to convince him to do it. He's like very adamant that, and up to this point, you understand like,

You've kind of like learned that he's he this is who he is. If he's not this, then he loses his identity sort of thing. And he's very adamant that he's not moving. And that all that all kind of adds up. And then all of a sudden, he's just like, OK, I'll go basically. And you're like, wait, what? There's like no like development to get there. Right. And so it's just hard to like figure out.

who he is and why he makes the decisions he makes. It's just, it's rough with him. And then like, there's a, there's, I wrote down the weirdness of the dynamic of this main trio in a contemporary film is just weird. The main trio, not Al, I mean like Pete, Dorinda and Ted.

I wrote down another Pauline Kael quote. She said, quote, Now that Spielberg is no longer 12, hasn't he noticed that there's a voyeuristic queasiness in the idea of playing Cupid to the girl you loved and lost and fixing her up with the next guy? In 1943, it was the finality of death that was being repressed. What the new age hell is being repressed now? Unquote.

Eli Price (01:20:35.478)
I'll let Pauline Kael. That's great. Yeah, I don't always agree with Pauline Kael's takes, but I always love her writing, even if I disagree with it. She was a great critic. But yeah, the and I think in the original two, the romance was definitely a part of the movie, but it wasn't like the main focus. It really was like she's right.

the finality of death and having to move on and that sort of thing and wanting your loved ones to move on was a big part of that. And that makes sense in the war context. And here it's like, what is he trying to, what's the point he's trying to make? It doesn't make sense in this context. It's.

It's not the 1940s anymore. It's the 1980s. Right. And this weird like dynamic going on. This voyeuristic Cupid thing is like doesn't make any sense. It's weird. It doesn't feel modern. And then on top of that, like the romance doesn't even really work that well with either of them. Yeah. I will say this. It started off OK.

Like you kind of get this like, kind of like.

You get that they kind of like like to push each other and like there there are some relationships that people have there like that like you, you know, you're stuck in your ways. I'm stuck in my ways. We're going to like tease each other about that. And but we love each other. And I kind of like was trying to get on that kind of wavelength with them at the beginning of the movie. Yeah. And that like all gets thrown out the window and there's the weird

Eli Price (01:22:34.582)
dance sequence with like all the guys like I mean Richard Dreyfuss is literally like holding towels be like wash your hands before you dance with my lady yeah like what in the world is happening like it's 1989 like why this and that's not in their original like it's not like it's paying homage to the original it's just like a really stupid joke

It doesn't make any sense. No, it doesn't. Like, it's all most of the humor just landed completely flat for me with this. Yes. It's funnier that they thought it would be funny than it actually was in the movie. Yeah. It's just Dreyfus's tone is just way off. Yeah, I wrote down this. This is a quote from Molly Haskell, who's

A book is her book is I'm listening to on audio book, one of my resources. She said, quote, The romance is not romantic. Hunter is scrappy, funny, argumentative and pure tomboy, more like a playmate or a sister. Even her professional ambition has a wistful all shucks. I'm just a girl quality. And then like the dress transformation kind of like emphasizes that all of that. And it kind of it.

I didn't make the connection of it feels very much like Karen Allen in Raiders, like putting the dress on and then it's like this like, you know, you know, like I really am a girl kind of thing. So yeah, I don't know. I was wondering like, okay, would Holly Hunter and Richard Dreyfus work in a romcom? Like maybe I could maybe see that more working, but it just doesn't work here.

I don't know. And yeah, and then like going along with what Haskell was saying about the more like playmate or sister when you when you when there's like the dancing scene later on in the movie where it's like cutting between her dancing alone and him dancing with her kind of thing. Like when he leaves that, he says like sleep tight, sister, and it

Eli Price (01:25:00.854)
It just feels the whole, like, that scene kind of feels like you're connecting with something, but it's not romance. It's more of like a familial. Did he say that or did Dave, Teddy, Ted say that in his like John Wayne voice doing the, the, I thought maybe they both did. Maybe so. I think they both did. Okay.

But where did I get tape from? Anyhow. Yeah. Dave, Ted, you know, who cares? Yeah. I think that I guess saying like sleep tight sister kind of emphasize though, how that that has a very like familial tone to it more than a romantic tone. And maybe that's why I like it is a bit more affecting because that's something schoolwork does really well.

is like that familial sentimentalism and romantic stuff. He just doesn't do well. So yeah. Yeah, the tone in this movie is just another reason it doesn't work. It's just all over the place. You know, is it comedy? Is it drama? Is it fantasy? I don't know.

He dips his toes in the supernatural spiritualness but doesn't fully commit to it. But even with the supernatural bits taken out, this movie doesn't feel grounded in reality at all. Apart from the really intense fire scenes, everything else that's in the real world part of the movie.

It doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like something you could ever experience. Like people aren't like that. Yes. Yeah. And it's. Yeah, there's a lot along those lines. There's a lot of like dumb shticks like there's like Pete like ghost pranking Al all the time. And I'm like, what is that? What is going on here? And then there's like.

Eli Price (01:27:19.862)
Another stick that like emphasizes how much of a jerk he is, which is like when he's first becoming ghost and he like tells that guy like he's silly looking or whatever. And like, then the guy's just like, like looks at himself in the mirror and gets all sad. I'm like, dude, what a jerk. You're using your ghost powers to like ridicule people. Like, I don't get it. and it's not like.

He grew from being a jerk ghost to like a nice ghost. No. And Audrey Hepburn like originally is like, yeah, you're such a good guy. That's why we brought you back. And you're like, no, he's not. I mean, he sacrificed himself for his. He was a good friend, I guess. Sure. Like he's a jerk. He's a jerk who can't even tell his girlfriend that he loves her without a plane roaring where she can't hear him. You know, right. Which happens at one point in the movie.

Yeah, I don't know. I almost wonder if his nostalgia for the original just like blinding him to being able to like remake this in a way that made sense. That made more sense in like a modern context. Because if you're going to move it out of the 40s, and you're going to make it in a modern setting, then you need to like contemporize it fully. And I don't think he did that. I think his nostalgia may be for

the original kind of like held him back from contemporizing it to the 1980s in like fully not just in setting, but like in tone. And the only thing that I feel like he made 80s about it was like sticky comedy, but it was just like thrown in randomly throughout the movie. So that doesn't work either because it's like tone whiplash.

It was a similar thing in the color purple and the color purple. There's like these random, like sticky, like dumb comedy scenes that like don't work at all with the tone of the movie. It's like you don't need that in that movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of the things that I like. I really hate it about the I felt like there was a few scenes that were just like ruined by that in the color purple that.

Eli Price (01:29:42.39)
could have been so much better. That's true. Yeah. Yeah, let's go down to the characters for a second so we can still end on a better note. We've talked about Pete. I guess to round out our talk on Pete, his weird possessiveness over Dorinda is one of the main things that I was like,

they should have modernized this because this does not read well in 1989. And it definitely like maybe it read better in 1989 than it does today. Yeah. Now it's just jarring. Yeah. It's just like, this dude is creepster McGee. Like, like there's the lines like, don't forget, you're still my girl is just like, does not read well. No. And 2024.

I don't know how it felt in 1989. It is, I'll say this, it's a line from the original. In the original movie, he says that to her when he's a ghost. But in the original, it's not set up the same as in this one. In the original, they can't see or hear you at all. In this one, it's like, they can hear you if you are talking directly.

to them and it's like it's their own thoughts. And the old one, it's just more of a feeling that he was able to make go through the ether, I guess, from the supernatural to the natural. I don't know. Is the tone the same? Because that line could almost be sweet, it's a different tone. It's one thing, yeah. It's one thing that I do dislike about the original is it's

What's jarring about the original is, like I said, it sets him up to be actually like be a really good guy. Unlike this new one. And he's like, he's like super nice. He's really endearing. He like very obviously loves Dorinda and the original. And then when he becomes a ghost, it's like he's more angry and more

Eli Price (01:32:06.486)
And I guess that could make sense of like, yeah, you're dead and you're having to watch like your your girlfriend fall in love with this new guy. Sure. Like I can get how like you could be angry, but it is a bit jarring. Like there's there's a there's a there is definitely a difference between him before dying and after dying of like. You never get the sense that he would have talked to her that way in real life.

Before he dies and so that is a little strange in the original even too But not in the same way that it is here here. It's like It just feels creepy. It does it's like dude like You do not own this woman Yeah, I don't know and it's just It's hard to connect with like the emotion at the end like it didn't they end with the same line like that's my girl and that's my boy and

Then, you know, it reads weird. It read, to be honest, like it reads weird in the original, watching the original in 2024. It read even weirder in the 1989 remake. You never get the feeling that he likes Ted. No, this. No. In the original, you do. OK, you do. He's there's a lot more time spent. So so a lot of the time spent and always with like

focusing on the romance and focusing on the after death dynamic of, you know, Pete and Dorinda. There's a lot more, a lot basically like shave off half of that and put it of like him spending time with Ted and like not liking Ted and Ted being like, you know, this young guy that like doesn't have like kind of sucks. And then like, he's like,

It spends a lot of time with them in the plane together and him like yelling at him. But then like when he starts to do good, he's like encouraging and he gives him lines to help him pick up girls. And like you see, you also see like how good of a guy Ted is. There's a scene that sets him up as like, he helps out a fellow guy that's like homesick. He like goes to a phone booth and.

Eli Price (01:34:33.526)
apparently like calls his figures out his parents, like ask, figured out his name and calls and asked for, you know, his parents or whatever. And, you know, says, call for so and so on the phone. And he goes over there and it's his mom is like, that was a sweet thing to do for this guy that's homesick, you know? So like it sets up even Ted to be like this really nice, good guy, similar to how it set Pete up to be this really nice guy. And so there's just a lot more.

development of that relationship in the original. And so like, it makes more sense to him for him to say like, that's my boy in the original. Yeah. And this one it doesn't. Yeah. And this one, it feels like, you know, it feels like Audrey Hepburn has sent him back to help this kid out. And he's just completely ignoring him. This is what it more what it feels like to torture Pete.

And also just that he's just like neglecting that duty to go try and have resolution. Right. And he does. That's all it seems like he's doing is trying to like get away from Ted so that he can go like have his own resolution with Dorinda or see what she's up to. And the original one just isn't like that at all. He's only in the original. He's only around Dorinda when Ted is around Dorinda, other than that that kind of final flight.

Is the only time that they're alone together in the original that I that I can think now that's not true There's a few times but it's he he doesn't like linger like he does in the remake And so yeah, it's it's strange it's weird. I Don't I don't get it. Dorinda Holly hunter as Dorinda is like the only other thing in the movie that I'm like not so terrible

Yeah, she's she's basically like acting circles around everyone else in the movie. absolutely. Maybe other than John Goodman. John Goodman's fine. John Goodman's fine, but he's given really silly things to do the whole time. It's not his fault. It's not. He's he's doing very well. John very well at being John Goodman with what he's given. Yeah. But yeah, Holly Hunter is actually giving a pretty good performance. Yes. Yeah, for sure. And like

Eli Price (01:36:57.814)
Every time she's with Richard Dreyfus, she's like acting circles around him. Same thing with Ted. yeah. With, well, Brad Johnson as Ted. And I feel like I feel like there's something. So Spielberg is very good at longing. The feeling of longing Spielberg is great at. And in the scenes before, like, she gets connected with Ted and, you know, you know,

Pete shows back up in her life. Those like kind of like middle scenes where she's alone. She like it really sells that loneliness and that longing for what you've lost sort of thing. She does. Man, it's really, it's good. It's good acting. You feel what she's trying to portray. It's very affecting. And yeah, it's like the only other thing in the movie that I'm like, this movie looks really good. And Holly Hunter's

pretty good at it. That's about it. Yeah, that's yeah. So yeah, I don't know. I liked I liked Holly Hunter. I'll say that. I did like Holly Hunter in the movie. I did too. Ted is so bland of a character. He's not given much to work with. He's not he he is the real thing that's not working in this movie is they're just not

He has no character. No, he has no character. There's no development like he's I wrote yet again another Pauline kale quote quote one moment Brad Johnson is the goofus who can't follow orders the next he's the top flying ace. There's nothing in between. This guy is a real find you look at him and you want to know does he sing unquote that was kind of like a parenthetical there at the end she was like he

You do wish this guy could sing and be in a musical. He looks great. Yeah. Yeah, he he has no character. I feel like he has one good scene. It's when they're in the car and he's like doing the John Wayne impression at like the first time he does that. I was like, OK, like this guy is not too bad. But then like, I don't know, is the movie goes on like this? This is just not working.

Eli Price (01:39:24.31)
And it seems like the only character development they're giving him is like Ted influencing or Pete influencing him to be more like Pete. Yeah, it seems like the only reason John Goodman and Holly Hunter are liking him is because he's acting like Pete. Right. So you kind of wonder, OK, well, Pete's ghost is gone at the end of the movie. What's going to happen if he's not Pete anymore? Yeah. Yeah. And the other big thing

that I really was like, okay, if I'm rewriting this in my head as I'm watching it, how do you modernize this? It's like, you don't have him end up with Dorinda. No. You have him end up with Rachel. Yes. Who feels like his age, who is into him.

You have Pete. They really set it up that way too. And then they just drop her character completely. It's actually like a really good meet cute moment. Like she's she's like really into him. He's kind of like often, you know, nowhere land. And you're like, OK, like that's a that's a funny like thing. She's she's like into him and trying to flirt. And he's like not getting it. It's like, OK, that's a fun meet you kind of moment. But like.

It doesn't go she just like drops off. Like you said drops off the face of the earth like she really does Maybe see her once again the whole rest of the movie. So there's seen in the bar. There's the scene in the bar. There's The the next scene where he's like trying to fly back in yeah, and she's taxing or she's not taxing right actually Yeah, yeah, but yeah after that, I don't think you ever see her again. But yeah in my so in my head I'm thinking like okay the rewrite of this that like

puts it in a modern context is not like super creepy like Ted thinks he loves to render. Pete helps him to see like, no, you like you really this is the girl for you. She's really into you. You know, you y 'all had actually like pretty good chemistry. Like don't let this pass you by. Don't not tell her I love you when you have the chance, you know, and helps him like

Eli Price (01:41:41.046)
do with Rachel what he didn't do with Dorinda. And then maybe having the Dorinda character see this workout and her maybe mentoring Rachel and helping her to not take for granted what she has with Ted. And that's how Dorinda is able to move on. Because one of my problems is, why does Dorinda need Ted to release her?

Like, that's very like, unfeminist, one thing. And like, I don't know, it just feels creepy and weird. It's like, you don't own her. You don't get to release her. That's up to her. Also, you don't get to tell her how to grieve. Right, yeah. And in my head, I'm like, OK, but if he's able to give Ted

Because that's what he's supposed to be being sent back to do is to mentor Ted. He's able to give Ted what he wasn't able to have. And Dorinda helps Rachel have what she can't have anymore. And that helps her move on. Then it takes away that creepy element. And yeah, you have some interactions with Pete and Dorinda, them longing for each other and him being dead and her. Yeah, you can have those scenes in there.

But you'll rework in a dynamic that makes much more sense for a modern context, where they're both able to move on at the end. And there's not like that weird possessive quality to it. And so, yeah, if Spielberg's listening and he wants to give another go at it, I'll help him with a new script for the 2020s. That'll make more sense.

Yeah. Yeah, at the end of the day, I'm just like really not sure what this movie is trying to like say or do. Like we talked a little bit about those personal elements and maybe those are working into it somehow. But yeah, do you have like any sense of what the point of this movie is? Maybe what it's trying to say.

Eli Price (01:44:05.782)
I wrote down some quotes. Did you have something? Sure. I think it is about loss and trying to learn how to move on. Yeah. Yeah. If I think it's about anything, it's probably that. Does it communicate that well? No. I did write down a couple of quotes that I'm like, OK, maybe these quotes have something.

to do with what this movie's trying to do. The first is a quote from Hap. She says, anything you do for yourself now, like for yourself, talking to Pete, anything you do for yourself now is a waste of spirit. I was like, okay, like is that saying something about, you know, doing things for others, making that the focus of your life? I don't know, maybe. But he's dead. It's like.

It almost gives you the sense of like, well, you can do stuff for yourself when you're alive, but once you're dead, like, what's the point? Yeah, what's the point? And then there's this other quote from Pete when he's talking to Dorinda. He says, the love we hold back is the only pain that follows us here. And that makes sense for what we were talking about. Like move on, like the loss and the moving on, not taking for granted what you have.

When you're alive, like, don't hold back any of your love. Let it all out while you still can. Because that's the only pain that can follow you to the afterlife is any love that you hold back. Like, OK, that makes sense. Like, I can get on board with that and I can kind of see that through all the weirdness and all the creepiness. Sure. Yeah. So that's that's in there.

Yeah, that's that's about all I've got to be. So, yeah, let's let's end all this on a better note. OK, Spielberg distinctives, whether it was there anything that stood out as like, that's so Spielberg when you were watching the movie.

Eli Price (01:46:23.67)
Not necessarily. You know, like the shot framing and everything. Sure. Yeah. You sure? Yeah. That's probably the main thing for me too is just like, I mean, you've got silhouettes. Lots of silhouettes. Lots of silhouettes. The one that stood out to me was when they're, it's like nighttime and Pete and Durinda are like, there's, I guess there's like some mechanics working on some planes out kind of, I think it's like his plane.

out in the distance, the bright lights and they're like watching. I was like, that's a really cool shot. There's like, there's the fantasy and real world overlapping. I think it's kind of a Spielberg distinctive. Something that he, something that he kind of infuses in a lot of his movies, even the Indiana Jones movies are very much like real world and fantasy overlap movies. The color purple was

There's something that didn't necessarily work extremely well for me, but it has that kind of feel at times even. OK. ET obviously. Sure. Close encounters obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Even to a certain degree, Jaws, because of the nature of this manic shark and how fantasy creature feature kind of that feels.

Sci -fi even almost yeah, it feels at times. So yeah and then like the other like technical thing would be like close -ups and people stepping into frame into close -ups is something that I noticed spill very just does really really well and it always looks really good The picture I have from this one is like it's like a pointed up shot and like John Goodman steps into the frame

I remember that one. Yeah, that was a good shot. It is. It's a great shot. And Spielberg does it every time he does it. I'm like, like, it's the same shot he does in every movie, but I love it every time. Yeah, so lots of like lighting contrast, like using warm light and like blue light to contrast with each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. That's that's definitely in there. And then the other thing

Eli Price (01:48:45.846)
is the other thing I would say that's maybe a negative is that when he leans too much into comedy, it just doesn't work. That was the big problem with 1941. That was the problem with parts of Color Purple. It was trying to like lean and force comedy. And when it's just like you rely on the charisma of your actor like Harrison Ford or

other people in like the Indiana Jones movies, the comedy in there works because it's not like forced. You're just like letting the charisma of your actors come through and say the funny one liner. You're right. It's not the focus of the movie. You're not trying to force it. And the comedy here just feels forced. And it kind of emphasizes that unfortunate distinctive of Spielberg, which is that when he really tries to force the comedy, it just doesn't work. But if he just lets it.

happen naturally, like it usually works. His movies can be funny, but not when he forces it. And it feels very forced. Part of that is Dreyfus, I think, in this movie. But the script is very obviously trying to get a lot of laughs. Yeah. John Goodman sticking a straw in a Twinkie. Yeah, I didn't laugh a lot in this movie. I'll say that. It was more like eye rolling.

And then I guess our last thing we can talk about before we kind of start wrapping up is any like intriguing sequences or shots obviously Beautiful plane sequences. yes, just beautiful Were there any that stood out to you that you can think of The the whole sequence of him saving John Goodman is incredible. Yes

coming up out of the cloud. And yeah, it looks great. The ending sequence is pretty well done. Like her Holly Hunter's character, Dorinda's stubbornly going out and taking on the fire herself and all that. That's really well done. Yeah. And this is like going back to something we said before, but that could definitely be like that.

Eli Price (01:51:11.318)
Just like that was the main time they were together in the original, that could have been their main time together in my rewrite. And then both him kind of talking through how he's seeing how she's moving on mentoring Rachel and how he's been having the same experience moving on, mentoring Ted and realizing that. And it could have been the same thing. It could have been the same really good. Yeah, anyways.

that opening sequence to the first 15 minutes of this movie. I love, I was really liking the first 15 minutes of the movie. The whole sequence with him running out of gas and having to try and make it back to the airfield. And yeah, it's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. It really is good. It's in hindsight, it's weird that it opened with like a gag, which is like,

the dudes jumping out of the boat. Yeah, I'm not sure what that's trying to say or anything other than maybe it looks cool. It does look cool, but all it really communicates is like, yeah, Pete's a little bit of a jerk. Yeah. Yeah, because you can obviously see these dudes. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it looks really great. And yeah, like I said, the movie really worked for me.

I was trying to get on board with it until like the sequence where all the dudes dance with her, which just dragged on and it was weird and just threw me off. I was like, what is going on here? What is this movie?

But yeah, the dance. So I will say this. So the dancing sequence later on, where it's like edited together with like her dancing by herself and like hint showing him like at certain angles, it's just like her dancing by herself, you know, but Pete's there and spirit form and like, he's kind of dancing with her in some shots and it's like edited together and like, honestly, like, is really well done.

Eli Price (01:53:25.814)
Yeah, it looks really good And like even you feel something with it It but like because of Everything that surrounds it like You don't know what to do with that emotion because it hasn't like earned it in the right way And it doesn't like close it in the right way Yeah, so it's just like an unfortunate like really really really great

sequence that's just like put in the middle of a junk. Yeah, that like, yeah, just unfortunate. But but you know, there's moments of brilliance like that even in this movie. It's like even like, even bad Spielberg movies are still like, have enough in them. They're like, okay, like this is better than a lot of really actually bad stuff. Sure. This isn't a horrible movie. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just really disappointing for Spielberg. Very, yeah. And I did write down, too, another really great shot, or just sequences. I think you mentioned it, too, was them in the plane at the end. The way it's composed is just really great. Really great stuff. And I wrote down in my notes while I was watching, there's a shot where I think it's...

a reflection of him in the instrument panel or of her. I can't remember which one of them it is. But there's like it's basically composed where you see one of them and the other one is like reflected in one of the like class of the instrument panel. Yeah. Yeah. And it just like I was like, that's really great. That's really great. Like Spielberg thinking up a cool shot. Yeah. Yeah. And then like after after she like saves the firefighters,

There's the shot of like the plane flying across the stars is just like beautiful. It is that was that might be my favorite plane shot of the whole movie and like the most Spielberg e plane shot. Yeah, well, that. Yeah, that's really all I've got on this. I don't know. Did you have any other thoughts on? Did you have any final thoughts on always?

Eli Price (01:55:52.438)
Okay, if you don't, I don't I don't guess I do. What a way for Audrey Hepburn to end her career. What that is a final thought. That's a good final thought. You know, I'm sure she had a great time shooting it. She looks great in the movie. She does. I don't really have a big problem with her character. She's just being like beautiful, like Audrey Hepburn and delivering lines with like grace and ease. Yes, that maybe aren't like

great in the context of the movie, but that's not her fault. She's no. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. That's a good final thought. I wrote down my final thought is transitions can be rough because the transition in the movie is really rough. And also like this transition and Spielberg's career is a little rough. He's been having a tough go at it. The eighties are like oftentimes talked about as like the great Spielberg decade.

But like, it's really like you've got three Indiana Jones movies, which are great. Sure. And you've got ET, you know, phenomenal. And then it's just like a bunch of like, was this good or was it not? Not sure. It's like a bunch of that. You know, the color purple and, you know, his kind of like the Twilight Zone movie and

the Empire of the Sun and this movie, you know, it's kind of like, was this movie good or was it not? It's really like he had, he had Indiana Jones, which is like half George Lucas. Right. And then ET was like phenomenal. And it's like, I don't know, maybe it wasn't his strongest decade.

I think I would probably put the 90s above it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the 70s too. We'll get to the 90s. The 90s starts off still kind of in this rough transition with Hook, I think. That's fair. You know, and I do like Hook more than this. Yeah. I haven't seen Hook since I was a kid, so I'm interested to rewatch it. To be fair. Yeah. I haven't seen it in at least a decade. Yeah. The nostalgia might be doing some work there, but you know, it's... And that's fine.

Eli Price (01:58:16.598)
sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. It's just kind of transitions are rough. You know, Spielberg is in this awkward transition and his both his like personal and professional lives. He hasn't had a lot of success with these movies in the late mid to late 80s. Not as much as like you would think he would have sort of other than Last Crusade, which did really well. Everything else is kind of like

Well, that didn't do as well as I thought it was going to do both like awards wise, financially. And so, yeah, he's in this like rough, like, what do I do? Do I lean into what got me here in like movies like ET? Do I try to do more serious movies? Those haven't seemed to work out because. Partly because, like, he can't let go of the ET -ness of him and fully commit to the seriousness.

which you can see in this movie too. Like he couldn't fully commit to the seriousness yet. and yeah. And then like his relationship with Amy Irving breaking down, obviously there, that's a transition. you know, he's, he's working through, like he's in a period where he's kind of learned that his mom was, his dad wasn't the main reason for his parents divorce, that it was his mom.

So he's working on reconciling with his father, which you can kind of see come out in Last Crusade and Hook in this transition period. Yeah, that makes sense. So there's just a lot of transition going on in Spielberg's life. And it can be rough. And this movie is rough. Sure. It's just one of those things where it's like, in hindsight, you can see that, hey, that was rough, but.

He got through it and he got some great stuff coming. Yes. Because we do know there's some really good stuff coming. So yeah, that was kind of my final thought. Transitions can be rough, which this movie is a prime example in both content and just like the behind the scenes stuff. So yeah, that was my final thought on Always. Did you did you give this movie a rating? I did. I gave it I gave it.

Eli Price (02:00:41.11)
two stars on letterbox. So I guess like a four out of 10. Yeah, I gave it a two and I almost wanted to give it a three star just because of how great it looks. But I was like, I don't know. I can't. So I ended up bumping it to two and a half. I gave it two and a half stars for Holly Hunter and how wonderful it looks. So yeah. And really like I wish I could have given it more because it really does.

It's like it might be one of the best looking movies even of his career up to this point. It'd be an interesting exercise to just put this movie on mute. Yeah, just watch it. Don't put on subtitles and just look at it. I don't know, the sticks would still look real dumb. Maybe pull up the John Williams score on like Spotify or something and listen to it in the background. Yeah, maybe so. Maybe that would work. Yeah. This was his only work with Michael Solomon.

as his DP, which he starts using, blanking on the future collaboration that he starts, I think, at least on Shinder's list with. I just can't think of that guy, the DP's name. But I'm pulling it up as I'm vamping.

And I'm going to say it any second. Januz Kaminsky, his future cinematographer, does a lot of his stuff. So yeah. So it wasn't so bad that we didn't get more Michael Solomon. But man, I don't know. This movie looks really great. It does. I might have to look and see just what else he's shot. Yeah, he's done. It honestly isn't that impressive.

of a career I was looking at it earlier. That's a shame. Yeah. He did the Abyss, which we talked about. Right. And then like a year. That's a great one -two punch. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. What year did that come out? Both in 89. Both came out in 89. So great year for Michael Solomon. Arachnophobia the next year, which also had Frank Marshall directed. Also had John Goodman.

Eli Price (02:03:01.334)
Never seen it. Ron Howard's back draft in 91. Never seen that, but fire. There's fire in it. OK, so there's some firefighters. So there you go. Maybe Ron Howard saw always and was like, hey, this guy shot fire and firefighters really well. Yeah, another Ron Howard movie far and away. There you go. Yeah, those are really only the ones of note. Unfortunate, because this movie looks great.

It does. And yeah, I don't know. Maybe maybe Michael Solomon only had a little bit to do with that. So yeah. Yeah. So basically two, two and a half stars for for how it looks and Holly Hunter, because she was great. She was. Yeah, this is one of my least favorite Spielberg movies. I have 30 you rate rated ranked, I mean, on letterboxed and it is number 28 only above his

really really really low budget TV movie something evil and 1941 gotcha which i did not like one bit you can go back and listen to that episode to hear about that so i do think this is yeah this is my lowest rated one yeah that's fair because you haven't seen 1941 have right right or something evil sure yeah

There's probably like some people would probably rate like Savage is another TV movie some people might break below this Some people might write Twilight Zone movie below this You know, I could see some other movies being right and below this for some people but But yeah for me, it's number 28 out of 30 I've got a lot of skill works to go to fill in. I'll keep get get defeat keep filling in blind spots

As a move on so I'm excited to do that. But yeah, that's that's really all we have for this week. Next week we are going to be wrapping up August with a fall movie preview kind of looking looking at what's coming out the rest of the year. What? What I'm kind of excited to see what movies we should put on, you know, have on our radar to to go see when they come out.

Eli Price (02:05:19.798)
So that's gonna be next week. And then the week after that, we'll do, my wife actually had an idea. I was like, what do I call it? Because it's not, I've been calling it like an epilogue because it's the end of the filmography, or at least at the time, right into the filmography. But this is not the end of the filmography. So do I call it an interlude or she was like, you should call it an intermission.

because it's like, yeah, that's a great idea. It's a Spielberg intermission. So that'll be the week after that. And I was thinking about doing like, kind of giving some best of rewards, awards to like some performances and direction and special effects, maybe like give some awards for this first section, the 70s and 80s. What was the best parts of Spielberg?

and these out of these this group of movies. So that's a fun idea. Yeah. So I think I'll do that for that. I haven't done that for any of my previous series. So this will be a first. Yeah, that'll be fun. So yeah, that'll be in a couple of weeks, a little Spielberg intermission before we get into the movies of the 90s and start the next section of his career, I guess, which will be like the 90s and 2000s is this kind of mid career Spielberg, I guess is what that series will be called.

But yeah, that's all we have for this week. Chase, I know the main thing you would say for people to follow you on Letterboxd, just to see what you write things, I guess. Sure, yeah. And I know you have a good bit of lists on there, too. I do have a good bit of lists. I write reviews every now and then. Right, yeah. Yeah, so are you at?

tables on there or something else. Probably I'll put the link in the episode description that works. Yeah. So chase Abels. Yes. you could probably find him just searching his name. Probably. Or you can click the link in the episode description, which I'll put in the, in the notes there. So yeah, follow chase on letterbox letterbox is always fun. but yeah, that's all we have this week. We will never, we will never cover always again.

Eli Price (02:07:39.734)
And I'm good with that. I don't know that I'll ever watch this movie again or think about it. I don't know that I will either. I think I won't think about it anymore after this. So yeah, goodbye to always. And that is all we have for this week. So I've been Eli Price for Chase Ables. You've been listening to The Establishing Shot. And we will see you next time. Bye.