Catch Me if You Can (w/ Abby Olcese)

Eli (00:01.782)
Hello and welcome to the establishing shot a podcast where we do deep dives into directors and their filmography's I am your host Eli Price and we are here on episode 84 of the podcast Continuing our series covering Spielberg. We're kind of in the middle portion of his career with catch me if you can today a crowd pleaser if you will and Yeah, have a first time guest joining me today

Abby Olcesi, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here. How are you doing?

Abby Olcese (00:37.23)
I'm doing great, thanks for having me.

Eli (00:38.986)
Yeah, yeah. So Abby is, she has her nine to five job, but what we really have her on here for is for her, yeah, just love for film. And she does some writing in film for, is it multiple publications that you've done writing for? Yeah.

Abby Olcese (00:59.522)
Yeah, I freelance a lot. So I'm a regular contributor at Think Christian and Sojourners. Those are places that I write for a lot. In fact, I think you had Joe George on here a few weeks ago and he's a good friend of mine from both places. And yeah, yeah, we're all a fun little network over there. I, yeah, Zachary Lee as well, which I don't wanna take too much credit, but I may or may not be the reason that they ended up writing.

Eli (01:12.532)
Mm-hmm. great. Yeah.

Eli (01:18.656)
Yeah, and Zachary Lee too, think, has, yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:28.104)
Sojourners and in Zachary's case interning with them for a year. So that might be my fault. Yeah, and I also am the film editor for The Pitch, which is an alt weekly here in Kansas City.

Eli (01:28.45)
Ha

Yeah, okay.

Eli (01:41.322)
Okay, great. Very cool. Yeah. And so you obviously enjoy writing about film and we are going to have you on for the next, a future episode. I'm not sure if it'll be next week because I'll, probably try to do like some, this will be releasing around the Oscar. So I might do like an Oscars preview show for next week, but, but probably the week.

Abby Olcese (01:50.989)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (02:10.146)
You know, one of the upcoming weeks we'll have you on for interview and talk more about your your love of film and your writing a film, which will be covering a book that has come out pretty recently, right? Back in what? November, October or somewhere in there. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (02:20.79)
Yeah. Yeah. October. Yeah, I had a book come out in October called films for all seasons that is an extension of a series that I wrote for Think Christian, which is a guide for movies to watch through the the church liturgical season. So yeah, I see you have a hard copy there. That makes me happy to see. Hey.

Eli (02:34.562)
you

Eli (02:40.074)
Yes, I have a hard copy. I threw it on the Amazon wish list that I give my family for Christmas and it got the luck of the draw. yeah, you can thank, I guess my in-laws I think got it for me, so you can thank them for the physical copy shout out on the video. If you're watching, you can see it there. But yeah, I'll make sure to put a link to that.

Abby Olcese (02:51.852)
That's awesome.

Abby Olcese (03:03.341)
Yeah.

Eli (03:09.782)
in the show notes where people can find it and like Amazon and all the usual places you can find. But yeah, we'll talk, dig more into what that's all about in that future episode. But for now, we're going to talk Spielberg. And I always like to hear people's stories of when they first came across directors. So do you happen to remember?

Abby Olcese (03:28.718)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (03:37.344)
your first encounter with Steven Spielberg.

Abby Olcese (03:40.972)
Yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, that's heck of a question. I think my earliest Spielberg memory is probably Jurassic Park. So I was about five when that movie came out. so like right at the like kind of questionably right age for it where like you're excited by dinosaurs, but like maybe not so much like death and dismemberment. So yeah, I think we watched it. I watched it with my parents and I was about.

Eli (03:49.078)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (03:58.828)
Yeah.

Eli (04:03.446)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (04:07.478)
seven and it made a huge impression. It remains one of my favorite movies. My mom and I just here locally went to the Kansas City Symphony doing a live score performance of it alongside the film, which was so much fun. So that was kind of my entry point. I also, you know, watched E.T. as a kid and cried a lot. It still makes me cry to this day.

Eli (04:10.241)
Yeah, yeah.

Eli (04:23.275)
Yeah.

Eli (04:31.73)
Yes.

Abby Olcese (04:32.494)
And this like kind of era of Spielberg that we're covering now, I would have been like a eighth grade high school freshman when Minority Report and Catch Me If You Can came out, because it was the same year, which is wild. And so that was kind of a big thing too, was just my memory of that.

Eli (04:41.153)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (04:54.626)
growing up was like that that was sort of hitting around the time that I was really starting to get into film. you know, like a lot of people, I Spielberg's always been there at different, different stages in my life, as well as he has different years in his career.

Eli (04:59.446)
Yeah.

Eli (05:05.982)
Yes, for sure. Yeah. It's funny. Cause like, I was kind of like in the same. I think you're maybe like a few years older than me. like, would have been. Catch me if you can minority report. I would have been like, just starting middle school. So I was kind of like on the cusp of depending on your parents, you know, what they let you watch these, those were like, maybe a little old for like.

Abby Olcese (05:23.927)
Okay.

Abby Olcese (05:29.041)
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eli (05:33.408)
what my parents were willing to let me watch. So I kind of like came in a little bit later with, watching them, but I did grow up seeing Jurassic park and ET. So we do have that sort of common intro there to,

Abby Olcese (05:35.756)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (05:45.528)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (05:49.228)
Yeah, I do have a really good story about Jaws. I used to babysit a couple of boys whose dad was a huge Star Wars and Ghostbusters and early Spielberg fan. they were, I think maybe about seven, and I was babysitting them and they were watching Jaws on TV. And I was kind of not sure if they should be, if they were old enough to really be watching it. But it was clear, I think that they had seen it at least once before, because they were pointing out stuff.

Eli (06:09.794)
you

Eli (06:14.519)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (06:17.366)
My favorite bit was that around the scene where they go to Quint's house for the first time, and he's like, you know, got like shark jaws, like boiling on a stove in his house. One of the little boys turns to me and he goes, he does that because it looks cool. And I was like, yeah, it does, you're right. And he said, and because it smells good. And I was like, it does not. I can guarantee you that house smells horrible. Yeah, so it's, I have a lot of positive memories associated with Spielberg movies as I'm sure a lot of people do.

Eli (06:24.715)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (06:32.034)
you

You

Eli (06:38.969)
Yes.

Eli (06:46.068)
Yeah, it's, yeah, I think that is the great, great thing about him is out of, I think out of like the directors, which this is just the third director I've covered, but, you know, he's kind of like a multi-generational director. like I've covered, I covered Wes Anderson and Nolan, Christopher Nolan, who's kind of like the Spielberg of today, but in a way.

Abby Olcese (06:57.89)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (07:12.952)
Hmm.

Eli (07:15.528)
Not that they make the same movies, but like how they kind of fit in pop culture is similar, I think. But yeah. Yeah, but but Spielberg just has a further like generational reach, I think. Like not that like I think old people like going to see Christopher Nolan movies, too. But it's not like this, you know, I, you know, I have I know like older people that are like into like seeing the newest Christopher Nolan.

Abby Olcese (07:18.467)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (07:21.784)
I'd say, yeah, like impact and scale wise, you're probably not far off, yeah.

Abby Olcese (07:30.527)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (07:39.224)
Yeah.

Eli (07:44.982)
But it's not the same as Spielberg. He has that, like, such a huge... I don't know.

Abby Olcese (07:47.426)
Mm-hmm.

where like, you can take the entire family to Seahook and every generation is probably going to enjoy it for different reasons, but they all will like it. It's, yeah, I think you're right on there. It's a different kind of a thing.

Eli (08:02.58)
Yes, absolutely. but yeah, let's, let's jump into Catch Me If You Can, because this is a very interesting movie. it's kind of, I guess it's kind of like coming off of a little bit of a, a sci-fi run for, for Spielberg. So, he's kind of getting back into his, I don't know, he's really like, he's had like some, couple of historical films and then a couple of sci-fi films.

Abby Olcese (08:07.597)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (08:32.226)
And this is like getting in a way back to his roots with kind of like an adventure. It's an adventure in a sense. It's kind of fast paced. It's getting a little bit back to his roots, but maybe just a little bit more mature, I guess.

Abby Olcese (08:43.021)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (08:52.268)
Yeah, and it's interesting actually to have watched this after seeing the Fablemans because I feel like if you were to watch these two, I mean, it would be a really long double feature, but if you were to double feature these movies, I think they would be in conversation in a really interesting way, which like, I don't think I had seen this movie until like since the first time I watched it in like maybe high school with my parents.

Eli (08:57.867)
Hmm

Eli (09:02.004)
Yes.

Eli (09:06.123)
Yes.

Abby Olcese (09:16.042)
until like for this podcast, I haven't seen it in years. so like watching it a year or so after having seen the Fableman's, I was like pointing to certain things and going, I see that, I see that, I see that, that's carried over in some kind of interesting, cool, maybe semi-autobiographical ways that I'm curious to see how he kind of hooked into the story personally there.

Eli (09:25.43)
Yes.

Eli (09:35.988)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, it's the kind of personal aspect of it is like all over this for sure. But yeah, let's go to the beginning because this started with the actual Frank Abagnale Jr. based on a true story or true-ish as we'll probably talk about at some point.

Abby Olcese (09:44.61)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (10:04.928)
I've tried to like listen, at least listen to audio books of all the books that these movies are adapted from, because he does a lot of adaptations, Spielberg. I did not get to this one, unfortunately. But I'm sure it would be a very interesting read. But Abagnale did actually appear on a game show called To Tell the Truth, which the movie starts with as kind of a

Abby Olcese (10:13.742)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (10:20.796)
yeah.

Eli (10:33.164)
I guess it's kind of a framing device. It kind of starts there and then doesn't ever mention it again.

Abby Olcese (10:38.582)
Yeah, if I have a criticism it's that I would have liked to have seen that more as like a consistent framing device. I don't know, I'm a person who likes patterns and structure a lot and so when you see something like that at the beginning it's kind of annoying to me if it doesn't follow through, but it is kind of a cool hook into the story.

Eli (10:43.869)
Yeah.

Eli (10:49.876)
Yeah, it is. it's kind of like, hey, this actually happened. I guess we got to include the movie with this. But it is like, I was thinking about that. Like, it never goes back to that or mentions it again. It just sets it up.

Abby Olcese (10:58.754)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (11:05.548)
Yeah, yeah. And at what point in his own story is this happening? Is this when he's working at the FBI for Carl Hanratty? Is it after? Like, just, yeah.

Eli (11:12.458)
Yeah. So it's, it's in 1977 is when he was on the show. So he, he, he appeared on the show. He had like, he appeared on some talk shows after that. and then he published his autobiography in 1980. So, which he was 28 years old at the time. So I would imagine. Yeah. I would imagine he was still working with the FBI at that point.

Abby Olcese (11:17.485)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (11:34.808)
shocking to me.

Eli (11:42.498)
because he was, it was what's 69, I guess, when, when he finally made it back to America in custody, I think if I'm remembering that, yeah, I'm trying to like picture the title cards showing like Christmas Eve, 1969, you know, um, but yeah, so he, in, in 1980, so, you know,

Abby Olcese (11:54.574)
Oh yeah, 1969, yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's right.

Eli (12:11.202)
kind of a decade after he's, he's been in, I guess, I don't know what you would call it on parole with the FBI. he's do, does this autobiography with the help of a journalist named Stan Redding. and yeah, I mean, it's really, it seems like as soon as it was published, they, people were trying to get adaptation rights. It was passed around a lot.

Abby Olcese (12:19.628)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (12:37.678)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (12:38.498)
I read that at one point even Dustin Hoffman was rumored to be playing Frank Abingdale Jr. Which would have been interesting. yeah, so late 90s, Jeff Nathanson, who was a screenwriter, wrote Twister and Speed 2. Those are probably the...

Abby Olcese (12:47.138)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (12:51.992)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (13:01.678)
We'll only talk about Twister, that's the only one worth mentioning.

Eli (13:05.45)
Yeah, yeah, that's I have not seen speed 2 but I can only imagine But Choisers good so he's he's a good screenwriter as far as maybe the director messed up speed 2 who knows But but he sees a recording of Abagnale and goes directly to Brian Kemp who? What is a producer?

Abby Olcese (13:10.73)
No, don't. Yeah. I've been told repeatedly not to bother with it, unfortunately.

Abby Olcese (13:19.48)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (13:24.865)
you

Eli (13:33.218)
And at that time held the rights to this story. Um, so Brian Kemp, uh, and him take it to dream works. Dream works is like, yeah, we're interested. And believe it or not, David Fincher was one of the early directors attached to this film. Um, uh, but he decides to focus on panic room, which also came out in 2002. Um, so I don't know.

Abby Olcese (13:51.48)
Hmm.

Eli (14:00.866)
That's still a blind spot for me, so I don't know if I'm like that was a good... Have you seen Panic Room?

Abby Olcese (14:03.566)
Mm-hmm.

I have not, but I've heard really good things. It's, yeah, I've been meaning to check it out again, so I'm sure it's probably really solid. If nothing else, I'd like to see baby Kristen Stewart kind of lighting up the screen a bit, so yeah.

Eli (14:08.588)
I've heard pretty good, yeah, I've heard good things.

Eli (14:16.714)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, I'll get to that. mean, I like to be a completist if I can and Fincher's definitely a tackleable, director as far as that goes. So I'll, I'll make it to panic room at some point. but, so Fincher drops out, and then Leonardo DiCaprio hears about it. he reads, the autobiography while he's on the set of gangs of New York, which being a

Abby Olcese (14:25.058)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (14:46.412)
Paul Thomas Anderson movie you can, as you can imagine is a very long, shoot. and yeah, he, I don't know why I said PTA. What movie am I thinking of? Why did I say? I don't know, but yeah, Scorsese, which I would too. you know what I was thinking? I was thinking of,

Abby Olcese (14:55.182)
Scorsese, not PTA.

Abby Olcese (15:01.998)
I don't know. don't know. PTA's Gangs of New York I would watch, but that's,

Eli (15:12.864)
I was just doing like a kind of like eight degrees of separation and I was, yeah, I was, I was putting, I was picturing Phantom Thread, Daniel Day-Lewis and then picturing, him in Gangs of New York. And that's what my mind did. So there's no way to explain. There's no logic to that. It just happened. but yeah.

Abby Olcese (15:24.586)
Okay, yeah, Daniel Day-Lewis and the vision management team. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

For sure.

Abby Olcese (15:38.69)
Hehehehe

Eli (15:41.302)
But yeah, I am ashamed because Scorsese's like, if I had to pick a favorite director, would be Scorsese. So now I'm ashamed that I said.

Abby Olcese (15:46.563)
Mm-hmm. As an Italian-American, I feel it is my duty to step in and correct where I can.

Eli (15:51.104)
Yeah, I greatly appreciate it. Yeah. I deserve to be reprimanded for that. But yeah, so he's on the set of Gangs New York with Scorsese. It's a long shoot. So he reads the autobiography and he's like, I would like to be a part of this movie. During this time, they get Gore Verbinski, who directed the first

At least the first Pirates movie. he direct? I think he directed multiple. Yeah. The first three, I think. Yeah. but yeah, he, so he gets, they, they get a deal going with him. they have Leo on board and James Gandolfini is playing the FBI agent at this point. but gangs in New York is still shooting, so it gets postponed. and in the meantime, Rubensky leaves.

Abby Olcese (16:22.442)
think he directed all of them, or at least the first three.

Abby Olcese (16:44.13)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (16:48.416)
They try some other guys, Halstrom who directed Chocolat, Milos Forman who directed Amadeus, Cameron Crowe even was attached at one point. Just nobody's working out. So as, yeah.

Abby Olcese (16:53.357)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (17:00.226)
Yeah, it's so interesting to think of like, I can envision what those movies would be like with those directors attached. And like, I don't hate any version of those. But I think, yeah, I do think that it's interesting that Spielberg comes on and has such a personal take on it, which is cool.

Eli (17:06.42)
Right.

Eli (17:09.887)
Right.

Eli (17:15.656)
Yeah, well it's one of those things where like maybe it would be cool to get multiple versions of this because it's such a good story and such interesting characters that it would be interesting to see what different directors like would pull from the story and focus on you know. But yes, Spielberg at this time had he had done a similar thing with Amistad but he's just like well nobody's

Abby Olcese (17:23.127)
Sure. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (17:33.943)
Yeah.

Eli (17:44.886)
getting this made, so I'm going to jump on and take it over. so he does. Yeah. He, steps into direct, he was actually working, on an adaptation of Arthur Golden's novel memoirs of a geisha at the time and pass that on to Rob Marshall. and yeah, he was really looking to do something lighter after four pretty heavy movies, in a row. And so, yeah, I mean, this, this sci-fi run.

Abby Olcese (17:47.234)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (18:01.475)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (18:14.53)
They're still like pretty heavy thematically, even though they're fun sci-fi movies. So, um, I also read that he really wanted to direct meet the parents in 1999, but, um, but Kate, uh, Capshaw vetoed it cause he was supposed to be on a sabbatical. she, she like kept him in line of like, Hey, remember you're supposed to be taking your sabbatical. No working.

Abby Olcese (18:18.488)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (18:27.394)
That's wild.

Abby Olcese (18:32.824)
Good. Okay. Good for her. Good job, Kate.

You

Eli (18:44.236)
So yeah, which I think Spielberg himself would even say that Kate was a savior for him as far as his workaholism. yeah, this portrait of America and the life of Abagnale really spoke to him. And yeah, he took it on.

Abby Olcese (18:54.966)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (19:10.582)
The way Spielberg talks about it is he says he approached it as like a nostalgic trip back to like the pop art and charm of the 60s. And also like 60s movies about swindlers and spy comedies like the Flim Flam Man, which I have not seen but is really fun to say. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so he's.

Abby Olcese (19:18.509)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (19:27.118)
Yeah, is. It's yeah, Irvin Kirchner is a good director. So yeah, I'm sure it's great.

Eli (19:37.308)
of like opportunity to recreate the America of his teens which you know what director wouldn't want to do that because your your teens are a very like exciting time in your life for most people not for I want to speak in generalities but most people like that's kind of the culture that like sticks around your teens and 20s that kind of influences you the most so yeah he he really wanted to like focus in on

Abby Olcese (19:44.014)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (19:48.3)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (20:01.294)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (20:06.4)
family and values and booming capitalism, but also like with I guess like a that undertone of knowing that it would all come crashing down. And so yeah, so Nathanson is still on board as the writer and he also talks about influences being being found in The Sting and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, movies that he loved and

Abby Olcese (20:17.772)
Hmm hmm hmm hmm

Eli (20:36.278)
Just kind of like the way he, the way he as the screenwriter looked at it was he was trying his best to not write Abagnale as a criminal, but as this kind of like smart and misguided kid, which comes across on screen big time. So, but yeah, they really, it,

Abby Olcese (20:47.501)
Mm.

Abby Olcese (20:51.968)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it works very well.

Eli (21:01.386)
They really like had to tweak the script a lot because it was very, it's, very episodic as I would imagine that the, the autobiography is episodic cause that's generally how autobiographies are written. Here's this story about my life. Here's this story and so on. So yeah, honestly, like thinking about it in that way, it's actually like a pretty impressive script to get.

Abby Olcese (21:17.133)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (21:30.142)
a through line through the movie that ties it all together.

Abby Olcese (21:33.324)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, think it could very easily have been like a and then kind of movie instead of it being as kind of thematically rich as it is. So yeah, it's the fact that it covers such a wide span of time. I think it does a pretty good job of making you really kind of watch the growth and decay and then regrowth of this person.

Eli (21:39.125)
Yes.

Eli (21:43.466)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (21:53.77)
Yes, yeah and that's it's also good that Spielberg had someone else writing it because he notoriously and admittedly himself usually says I need good writers because I have found myself not to be a great writer. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (22:01.997)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (22:11.98)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (22:15.502)
It's good to know his strengths. I think it's really cool that he's able to see his own interests and his own passions in projects. I'm sure he's working in collaboration with the people that writing the scripts, but to be able to find himself in somebody else's work is a real talent as a filmmaker.

Eli (22:37.544)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and he you know, he's like He's as far as like the story it goes. He's like the visionary usually and so like he's got tons of ideas and he just like throws them it seems like he just like throws them all at his writers and they They just kind of take what makes most sense and sticks and and make something out of it

Abby Olcese (22:47.832)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (23:03.926)
Yeah. Yeah. That's not, mean, that's not too terribly different from how certain forms of marketing work. Honestly, I get that.

Eli (23:11.906)
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, if you watch these behind the scenes, some of these, like, conversations of Spielberg with his team, and he just, like, it's like, before he even gets done with one idea, he's like, and what about, we could do this. And it's like, you know, they're writing stuff down and they're like, we've got to, like, make something out of all these ideas. but like, but when it comes to, like, on set,

Abby Olcese (23:29.496)
Sure,

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eli (23:41.002)
It's kind of like the opposite. Like, yes, he's a visionary, but he's like very detailed. He knows exactly where the camera, where to put the camera. He has like a very specific vision. so it's interesting to see like those two sides of him, like being like the throw everything up the wall ideas guy in the, in the, like the pre-production stuff. But then once you're on set, he's like tuned in.

Abby Olcese (23:46.039)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (23:51.212)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (23:58.541)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (24:03.66)
Yeah, once you've got the structure and you know where you're going, which I get that. I sometimes work a little bit similarly. But I think it's great, like, I think he works with Tony Kushner a lot these days, and I feel like maybe he's found somebody who really kind of fits that mold really well for how he likes to work.

Eli (24:12.193)
Yeah.

Eli (24:19.38)
Yes, yeah, yeah probably so. He does assemble a crew made up of some new faces, but mostly like his go-to's Janusz Kaminski obviously is kind of from Schindler's List on is his guy. Michael Kahn is tried and true editor, John Williams of course, which

Abby Olcese (24:39.767)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (24:46.786)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (24:46.998)
We'll talk about, we'll try to get to the score at some point, because this is a really fun John Williams score that it stands out big time. Cause one of my, one of my complaints, I say complaints, it's not like a real complaint. It's just kind of like a slight critique where I'm still like bowing down to the great John Williams while saying it is sometimes his scores kind of like just kind of take from

Abby Olcese (24:53.174)
It's great. Yeah, it's so much fun. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (25:11.256)
Sure.

Eli (25:16.034)
each other. Like they can all bleed together. You know, there's the standout themes that he writes, but a lot of his scores, the swelling emotions are very similar. so, but then every once in a while he'll do a movie like this, which is just so different. And it's like, you have such a range with what you can do. Why do they all? Yeah. But

Abby Olcese (25:17.4)
Sure. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (25:37.216)
Yeah, it's a real departure. Which, yeah, it's I feel like I can really see the like, I people talk about Michael Giacchino is kind of the heir apparent to to John Williams. And I feel like in moments like this, that's where it stands out for me where I can point to and go, Okay, yes, I can hear this. And like the Incredibles, I can hear this in certain other places. So yeah, it's, I think it's a really cool. It's a different kind of score than we're used to seeing from him. And it sounds great here.

Eli (26:03.978)
Yeah, well, it's let's go ahead and follow that money trail because what's interesting is it's actually going back to his roots. He he did a lot of jazz in the 50s and 60s before he really got into writing movie scores. He was doing. Yeah, I mean, he was doing just that was the main thing he was doing was writing for jazz and playing jazz and stuff. And so.

Abby Olcese (26:08.206)
Sure.

Abby Olcese (26:12.803)
Hmm.

Abby Olcese (26:17.421)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (26:32.982)
He's really like getting to go back to his roots in a similar time period really that the movie set. So he just seeing him in like the making of stuff, talk about it. You can just tell like he's really lit up even more so than like maybe even like better scores that he's done talking about those very like.

Abby Olcese (26:39.084)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (26:49.451)
That's so cool.

Eli (26:57.13)
seriously and like this is what we did but he like looks excited for this one which was fun to see.

Abby Olcese (26:59.498)
Right. Yeah. Yeah, like it's an opportunity to kind of, I don't know, revisit stuff that you have that you enjoy doing, but haven't gotten to do in a while. Like it's an invitation to play almost. So yeah, I would imagine if you're like somebody who's known for a certain kind of thing, and then somebody asks you to do something that you know you like, and nobody asks you to do ever, like, yeah, I would be excited.

Eli (27:11.818)
Yeah, absolutely.

Eli (27:18.529)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (27:22.582)
yeah. Yeah, and it really does like, this John Williams score brings like a totally different like swagger to the movie than it would have if it was like his typical fare for a movie score.

Abby Olcese (27:32.301)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (27:37.388)
Yeah, I think it does a great job of like setting the atmosphere and the pace and it works really, really well with the production design, which like, yeah, there's so much going on with like the TWA terminal and like all of the whole obsession with like airlines and pilots and stewardesses. Like it fits the style very, very well.

Eli (27:41.601)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (27:45.257)
Yes.

Eli (27:49.408)
Yeah.

Eli (27:56.726)
yeah, yeah. There is like, he still does have like a couple of themes that sound more like traditional John Williams. Like there's this like very emotional, like magical, emotional sounding theme whenever like Abing Nell Jr. is like having a emotional moment that like pops up that I'm like, there's like the John Williams we usually hear. And so that

Abby Olcese (28:03.831)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (28:17.216)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (28:21.826)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Eli (28:25.63)
It kind of stands out because it's like, that's like typical John Williams. And then it jumps back into the really groovy jazz music.

Abby Olcese (28:33.388)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice that he's able to pick it up and put it down as needed, but yeah, I get that. get that.

Eli (28:37.696)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Other crew, you mentioned the production design. So you have Sarah Knowles doing the art direction. Janine Appewall, I guess that's how you pronounce her name, doing the production design. Kim Santantonio doing hair. And then Mary Zofre is doing costumes.

Abby Olcese (28:52.6)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (29:03.17)
Which she's actually out of that group probably the most notable. She's had three Oscar nominations for costumes And the costuming is really great in this movie. But it's really all that whole crew like huge props to that design crew because this movie is It's so like It's just interesting to watch As far as all that goes

Abby Olcese (29:06.765)
Hmm.

Abby Olcese (29:13.312)
It is, it's really solid.

Abby Olcese (29:27.842)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's, I mean, especially with the, think maybe the obsession with mid-century design was maybe starting a little bit in the early 2000s, but like, we're still kind of pre-Mad Men by a few years here. And so, like by the time that that hits and we're like, I think around now, maybe that's starting to fade a little bit, but I am still obsessed with that stuff. like seeing the attention to detail there and just like the design porn on screen where you're like, man, like I.

I want to like live, feel, like eat this stuff that I'm seeing. Like it's, it's really cool.

Eli (30:01.942)
yeah. man. It's yeah, it's great. Yeah. And also like I love the colors, but also like man are some of them hideous. The same time. It's like, I love that, but it's hideous.

Abby Olcese (30:16.054)
I know. yeah. Like, I think there's that apartment that he lives in that has like, yeah, it has like the avocado green like carpet and stuff. And like, there are people outside using like, tanning timers. And he's like on the phone. And then somebody's like, Hey, so and so fell into the conversation pit. And I was just like, this is just like, signifier after signifier after signifier, just like, how much more can you tell us that this is the 60s? And, you know, nobody's caring about skin cancer.

Eli (30:22.207)
Yeah.

Eli (30:35.488)
Yes.

Eli (30:40.118)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's real to real.

Abby Olcese (30:44.2)
or yeah, that's right, the reel to reel machine. It's almost too much, but like I also don't mind it at the same time.

Eli (30:49.479)
man. Yeah.

Yeah, man, it's great. Yeah, maybe that was like, Spielberg was like, I really want to shout out my designers for this scene. So let's throw it all in here.

Abby Olcese (31:03.064)
For sure. Yeah, yeah. Or like, remember this, remember this, remember this. It just feels like, like at the ultimate nostalgia moment.

Eli (31:08.65)
Yeah, and that might be that might have been one of those Spielberg like remember this we can throw that in there. I'll remember this

Abby Olcese (31:14.346)
Mm-hmm. You guys remember conversation pits? Yes, I do. We need to bring them back. I get it.

Eli (31:21.134)
Nathanson, can you get that in the script? He's like, yeah, I'll get it in there. Yeah, really good crews. The cast, let's talk a little bit about the cast because this is a very interesting, very fun cast to talk about. So obviously, Leonardo DiCaprio plays Frank Apignale Jr., not Abignale.

Abby Olcese (31:23.33)
That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (31:33.676)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Abby Olcese (31:47.233)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (31:48.636)
big nail. And he does Titanic, and then he kind of disappears for a bit, which is interesting. I don't know, I guess that doesn't happen as often today of these young actors doing such a big movie and then disappearing because it seems like, I don't know, the MCU or somebody will snatch them up and throw them in their movie or

Abby Olcese (31:54.136)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (32:03.682)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (32:13.132)
Right, yeah, you get the golden handcuffs put on you and then you're never free again, but.

Eli (32:16.578)
Yeah. Um, but that's, that's what happened to him. He kind of disappeared. was, um, 26 at this time. And so, you know, he was, he was, you know, obviously filming for gangs in New York, but it hadn't come out when they started this movie. Um, so he kind of came right off of gangs in New York onto this, this movie before it was probably, I think gangs in New York was also 2002. um, it's feels like, so.

Abby Olcese (32:20.034)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (32:31.906)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (32:43.808)
Yeah, that sounds about right.

Eli (32:46.146)
So they I think they were maybe just like finished wrapping up production on this maybe when it came out so that was he he kind of You know, that was a well-seen movie Generally, and so he kind of like came back on the scene a little bit with that I guess but yeah that and this in the same year is probably like pretty big for him like showing back up, you know Yeah

Abby Olcese (32:53.983)
Okay, yeah.

Abby Olcese (33:12.172)
Yeah, that'll put you on the map. Yeah.

Eli (33:16.512)
And yeah, so he, he really like, and really like too, this year begins Leo's run of like jumping around to all the big directors. So he like knocks out Scorsese and Spielberg in one year and really like, really like from here on, like he really, he does some Tarantino. He does, you know, in your auto with Revenant and like, he really like mostly tries to like.

Abby Olcese (33:29.294)
you

Abby Olcese (33:36.461)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (33:44.328)
I'm just going to work with the best directors, which honestly is like a really smart career move for a big actor. But yeah, so yeah, he did a lot of work for this movie. He spent like, he spent three days with the real Abagnale Jr. He like recorded them and took notes. And yeah.

Abby Olcese (33:50.254)
Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

Abby Olcese (34:04.952)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (34:10.018)
I wrote down this quote from Leo because I thought it was funny. He said, don't think he would steal a postage stamp. He has, he looks as innocent as a school teacher. A lot of his way of seducing people was very unconscious. And so that was like one of the, guess, like qualities he picked up on that he tried to like mimic in the movie, which yeah, which you can definitely see very like charismatic and like, like not really like

Abby Olcese (34:22.744)
funny. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (34:30.124)
Yeah, I get that.

Abby Olcese (34:36.042)
Mm-hmm. He's a person who seems like he makes friends easily.

Eli (34:40.019)
Yeah. And it comes across in the movie because you never, there's, there's a, maybe a few moments, but usually there's not like this, him thinking about like, how am going to get this person? It's just like, he's thrown into a situation and he just, it just comes out of him. that like very unconscious, like swindling and lying and. You know, pulling people in. So yeah. so yeah, Leo does some good prep.

Abby Olcese (34:52.27)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (35:01.676)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (35:09.546)
with the real Frank Abinale Jr. for this movie, which really, I think, comes through. Yeah, and really like a really great choice for this kid because I was, it had been a while since I had seen this and I was surprised like how much he looks like a kid at the beginning of the movie. Yeah, like maybe even more so than in Titanic when he was younger, so.

Abby Olcese (35:29.144)
Yeah, very much so. Yeah, he still looks very young.

Abby Olcese (35:35.702)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's yeah, he plays that vulnerability really, really well. It's yeah, and like you can see all the stuff that he picks up from Christopher Walken as his dad, like how he really worships him and respects him and how his father's

Eli (35:41.12)
Yeah, kind of the wide-eyedness and...

Eli (35:49.622)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (35:56.768)
ways of kind of swindling people are like, it's not dissimilar from that. Like he's not a bad guy. He just is who he is and he's a natural charmer. So I think a lot of it is just like you see this kid who, he only sees that as like the only form of success that a person can have. That's his model. so.

Eli (36:18.016)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Abby Olcese (36:21.0)
It's almost like it's almost kind of charming to see him like first just trying it out and then like taking it even further just like this is what he knows how to do.

Eli (36:29.76)
Yeah, it's interesting and it's it's interesting too because like this was this was a period where you know, Spielberg is is kind of reconciled with his father again and so but like I guess that is one difference is like Spielberg did not want to be like his father when he was growing up. and in this movie, it's almost like it's almost like him like reimagining

Abby Olcese (36:41.361)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (36:50.594)
Right, right.

Eli (36:58.998)
What if I did want to be like my father when I was a kid? Kind of in that reconciling period. But yeah, that's.

Abby Olcese (37:01.708)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (37:07.638)
Yeah, or even, yeah, I think like both sides of that relationship too, of how wanting to be like somebody, but also recognizing that that person is on some level responsible for tearing your family apart. Like that's, it's both aspirational and really painful at the same time, which I could imagine, like, even if you were still mad at your father, like that would still be like a thing that would probably reside in your heart in some way.

Eli (37:11.852)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (37:33.48)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I almost wonder too, like thinking about it right now, I'm almost wondering if there's a bit of his dad and his mom in that character because he always talks about how when he was growing up, his mom was less of a mom to them and more like of a friend kind of companion. Like she would just kind of let

Abby Olcese (37:44.078)
Sure.

Abby Olcese (37:59.732)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (38:01.6)
them do what they wanted to do. And there's like that one scene there, his like last meeting with his father where he's just like, tell me to stop, like be a parent. And it's so I almost wonder if there's a bit of like his mom, like, like be a parent to me, like tell me not to do this thing that I've, that I'm doing, you know. so it's interesting how like those influence kind of like meld together, you know, to a degree in characters.

Abby Olcese (38:04.053)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (38:10.954)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Abby Olcese (38:18.744)
Sure. Sure.

Yeah.

Abby Olcese (38:28.416)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do feel like I see a little bit of like, I mean, not knowing much about Spielberg's mother, but like, I see a little bit of Mitzi Fabelman and his mom in just like this kind of beautiful but unknowable person who also has an affair with his dad's best friend, but you know, and ends up marrying him. you know, similarities, who's to say?

Eli (38:38.562)
Hmm.

Eli (38:44.514)
Sure.

Eli (38:48.514)
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe she also was the rat that churned milk and butter. But yeah, mean Christopher Walken, speaking of him, is really great in this movie. I think he's like one of the unsung heroes of this cast. Maybe not the first person you would think of to like...

Abby Olcese (38:57.471)
yeah, the mouse that turned the cream into butter, yeah sure.

Abby Olcese (39:06.529)
He is, yeah.

Abby Olcese (39:12.513)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (39:16.038)
this really this performance really holds it all together but in a sense like those moments where he shows back up throughout the movie really like it does a lot for the character development you need to see in Frank Abagnale Jr. in Leo's character just those interactions like they progressively get more like he realizes more and more I think each time like

Abby Olcese (39:19.298)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (39:45.546)
Maybe I don't need to be my father, you know? Maybe I need to find a different father figure.

Abby Olcese (39:48.738)
Mm-hmm

Abby Olcese (39:52.278)
Yeah, I think it's hard for me to think of an actor at that time or even now who would have struck that balance as well. Both that kind of like accessing that particular era of charm and kind of adult male successful businessmen-ness that he carries throughout that.

Eli (40:13.559)
Yeah.

And then an.

Abby Olcese (40:16.364)
while also having that same kind of like mysteriousness and like, don't know if I can trust you.

Eli (40:19.264)
Yes. Yes. Yeah, there's that like very unknowable quality to Christopher Walken just like in, I don't think it's something he's putting on. I think it's just kind of natural to like the, yeah.

Abby Olcese (40:27.842)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (40:35.904)
Yeah, the dude's kind of an enigma, I think, in that like everything he does kind of surprises and confuses me at the same time.

Eli (40:44.566)
Yeah, well it's like he's in on the joke about himself but not at the same time, but like totally sincere at the same time, which is...

Abby Olcese (40:48.438)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like this is maybe around the time that we were, I mean, the nineties, maybe starting in the nineties, you start to see that a little bit more. But this was, think, around the time that that was sort of becoming like the thing that he was known for was like being able to kind of play on his own image a little bit.

Eli (41:08.384)
Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to remember when the cowbell sketch was for SNL. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (41:12.254)
Yeah, that might have been a little bit before this. I know that the Fat Boys Slim music video is like a few years after this or around the same time. But like that's that's kind of the trifecta in my brain.

Eli (41:18.956)
Okay.

Eli (41:24.468)
Yeah, yeah. Where he's like still totally himself and sincere but still, but also in on the joke. It's hard line to pull off, so props to him. But yeah, yeah, he, I think he's great in the movie. Spielberg cast him for one because Walter Parks, his co-producer, said he should go after him for this part, but Spielberg really loved him in The Deer Hunter.

Abby Olcese (41:31.764)
Mm-hmm. Very much so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Abby Olcese (41:49.998)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (41:54.166)
which is still a blind spot for me, so I need to see that. Yeah, yes, very different movie from what I can tell, so. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, other cast, obviously, Tom Hanks. Would this, it's interesting. This is like in the middle, or.

Abby Olcese (41:58.818)
Very different role.

Abby Olcese (42:05.644)
I mean, Heaven's Gate is too, so there's that.

Abby Olcese (42:14.818)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (42:21.73)
It actually might be like the end of Tom Hanks big run of like a hundred million dollar box office movies. He had like a run of like, I think it was like, I don't know, like 12 of 13 or something movies that were, that made a hundred million dollars in the box office. And this was like towards the end of that.

Abby Olcese (42:30.392)
Sure.

Abby Olcese (42:39.896)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (42:44.556)
Okay, yeah, I was trying to think, think Cast Away came out in 2000 and that's, I'm trying to think of like where that fit into the kind of the narrative.

Eli (42:50.464)
Yeah. Yeah. There was like one movie. can't, I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head that like just bombed completely in the middle of that stretch. but, but yeah, he's just like hit after hit after hit. So it's basically like you hire Tom Hanks on and it's going to be a hit at this point still. so yeah, I mean,

Abby Olcese (43:02.337)
Okay.

Abby Olcese (43:13.997)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (43:20.302)
I'm like, I think Tom Hanks is good in this movie. I question the need for an accent.

Abby Olcese (43:28.79)
Yeah, I mean, there's a couple bits that I think like the the accent is pretty funny, like the knock knock joke scene is like it's it feels like a very Boston thing. And so like to have that response to it just like, yeah, all right. But

Eli (43:34.603)
Yeah.

Eli (43:42.432)
Yeah, I'm just not sure this character like needs to be from Boston necessarily. Like it's just kind of like generic, you know, FBI guy that's, you know, serious about his job and, you know, doesn't have a family to go home to at night. So like, that's like the main thing about the character, not that he's from Boston. So I'm just like, you could have just done your normal voice, Tom, like, but I guess it was like for him, like,

Abby Olcese (43:48.501)
Sure, sure, sure, yeah.

Abby Olcese (43:57.218)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (44:08.523)
Right. Right.

Eli (44:11.444)
a fun challenge? don't know.

Abby Olcese (44:12.81)
Yeah, yeah, I want to say that this is like, at least in my brain, it's one of the first things that I remember seeing Tom Hanks and that kind of had the America's dad vibe to it. Like, maybe this is the start of his transition into that role. Just like the way that he is with with Frank, both where he's just like, he's, he's, you know, chasing him down because he's a quarry, but also like the, relationship that he develops with him is very, it feels very parental in like the way that

Eli (44:23.841)
Mm.

Eli (44:28.534)
Yeah.

Eli (44:39.915)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (44:40.44)
Frank wants his dad to be in a way. And so I feel like that's sort of where I start to see that kind of happening for him. I'm trying to remember, think Polar Express is after this by not that much. And that is sort of, I think kind of a seminal, even though I don't love that movie very much, I feel like that's sort of a seminal entry into the Tom Hanks America's dad situation as well.

Eli (44:49.046)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (45:00.076)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I do not like to watch that movie. It's like it is. It freaks me out. But yeah, you know, yeah, I won't say anything more about that. yeah, Tom Hanks is, so I'll say this about the accent. At least it's not whatever in the world he was doing in Elvis. So, so I'll...

Abby Olcese (45:06.186)
No, it's uncanny and weird, but it's, yeah. Yeah, good, that's the correct response.

Abby Olcese (45:19.16)
there.

Abby Olcese (45:29.203)
sure- yeah, right? No, yeah.

Eli (45:33.184)
With that in mind, this is actually like pretty good. Yeah, it's, look, I hear and I have in my notes. I should have looked a little further down. It is the last in a streak of $100 million grossing films for Hanks. cause he follows, what was that?

Abby Olcese (45:37.004)
Yeah, yeah, could be worse, could be the snowman.

Abby Olcese (45:50.734)
Okay, what's after this?

Yeah, what's after this I was gonna ask.

Eli (45:56.524)
So right after this is the Lady Killers with the Coens, which bombs. And then the Terminal is after that, which does pretty good. But yeah, I think from this point on, it's kind of like he has a lot of up and downs, which is still sort of true to this day, I think. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (46:00.174)
yeah, okay. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (46:13.345)
Okay.

Abby Olcese (46:17.75)
Yeah, I mean, I still think he's a pretty bankable star, but yeah, that's, I'd say it's a little bit less consistent than it was in like the 90s through, you know, the early 2000s.

Eli (46:27.754)
Yeah, he must have a deal with Apple or something because I feel like he's been in the last like he's had like an Apple movie the last couple years it seems like.

Abby Olcese (46:35.744)
Yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah, including a couple that I've completely forgotten exist. So yeah, you're right.

Eli (46:38.868)
Yeah, yeah, the ones that I don't even think really have much of a theatrical run, so it's like who's watching this movie because who subscribes to Apple Plus other than people that like are talking and writing about film, but because there's hardly anything. Yeah, yeah, and Ted Lasso when that was going people were, yeah.

Abby Olcese (46:46.83)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (46:54.988)
That's, that's fair. Yeah, People who love severance, duh.

Abby Olcese (47:05.036)
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Eli (47:07.19)
but yeah, so it, yeah, this character is interesting. It's, it, it's like, he does kind of like kind of fill in that this is the father I needed all along kind of thing in the movie. and the character's like kind of a composite of like several FBI agents in the real story. so yeah, it really, I think this

Abby Olcese (47:22.476)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (47:31.926)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (47:36.994)
probably really needed a Tom Hanks to pull all of that off because it could have easily been a very like I don't know about I don't know probably a more forgettable role without someone like Tom Hanks but yeah it

Abby Olcese (47:52.738)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (47:57.964)
Yeah, I don't know if it becomes as like, I don't know, like a successful Broadway musical if you don't have like two dynamic actors and dynamic characters playing off each other the way that that hangs into Caprio doing this.

Eli (48:10.07)
Yeah, yeah. They have good chemistry. one of the things about Tom Hanks is he's really good at like, he's one of those actors that like you, it seems like maybe he's not sticking to the script, but he is. He's just like really good at passing lines off as his own. and I think that's, that's actually something that Spielberg said about him is he's just really good at making his lines sound improvised or natural.

Abby Olcese (48:27.479)
Hmm.

Abby Olcese (48:38.028)
Yeah, I mean, that's, I can't think of a better thing to say about an actor. They're so natural at delivering the stuff that you want them to deliver. Like, that's it. That's what you want.

Eli (48:42.87)
Yeah.

Eli (48:46.977)
Yeah.

Exactly. And yeah, I guess Tom Hanks is one of the best at that. Which I can see he does have a way of like just like saying, I guess saying his lines, but they feel like he's just a real, you know, he's America's dad talking to us through the screen, you know. Yeah, we should definitely talk about some of the other cast as well. Natalie Bye plays Paula.

Abby Olcese (48:53.89)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (49:01.347)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (49:06.146)
Yeah. Yeah.

Eli (49:18.562)
Abagnale, the mom, Spielberg really wanted a French actress and he loved Bye and Truffaut's Day for Night, which I have not seen. I need to see more Truffaut. That's something I need to correct. I think I've only seen...

Abby Olcese (49:20.994)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (49:30.733)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (49:38.156)
think I've only seen one, so yeah, definitely need to correct that.

Abby Olcese (49:40.684)
Huh. Truffaut is the director that he uses as an actor in Close Encounters. So he's got that Truffaut connection playing on a couple of levels.

Eli (49:48.906)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, mean, and really like they kind of are, Truffaut made a start with like a movie about a kid, so they kind of have that connection going to like tapping into that childlike quality, which 400 Blows is very different than Spielberg's take on childhood, but...

Abby Olcese (50:02.958)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (50:09.442)
Yeah, absolutely.

Abby Olcese (50:15.596)
For sure, yeah, yeah. But I think the importance of like the whole coming of age thing, I think I can see that resonating.

Eli (50:20.246)
Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yeah Yeah, so he he he loved her in that so his good friend Brian De Palma is in France at the time and so she actually auditioned with Brian De Palma and Got the part through him, which is funny. It's like Spielberg's like, hey Brian, can you audition her and Brian's like, yeah, she'd be good Yeah, very different

Abby Olcese (50:37.742)
Hahaha

Abby Olcese (50:42.23)
I keep forgetting that they're friends. I know that they were part of the same scene. It's just like, can't think of two artists with more different proclivities. Like, how are they friends?

Eli (50:53.898)
Yes. There's a degree to which like Spielberg can get very like he's like he can be very mischievous which which feels like Brian De Palma feels like he likes being like mischievous with the line the lines he likes to cross it's just Spielberg doesn't cross the lines he like goes up to them and he's like he he he you know what i'm really wanting to do here and

Abby Olcese (51:05.933)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (51:11.566)
Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (51:18.954)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Eli (51:23.862)
Brian De Palma just leaps over those lines.

Abby Olcese (51:25.262)
He just pushes that envelope right off the cliff. That's, yeah.

Eli (51:28.596)
Yeah. Yeah. I think Natalie by is fine. It's yeah. I don't really have anything to

Abby Olcese (51:37.196)
Yeah, it's not a media enough role, I think, for it to really make as much of an impact, which I kind of wish it were a bit more, but I also get it. It's,

Eli (51:42.081)
Mm-mm.

Eli (51:47.436)
Yeah. Yeah, it's well, you know, Spielberg gets he he can, which is another, guess, another Christopher Nolan connection is he can get a bad rap for his female characters. But honestly, like it's I feel like it's more of like, well, do we do we like at this time, at this time, it was still maybe more like, OK, we need more good female characters in these male directed movies.

Abby Olcese (52:01.048)
Sure, yeah, I could see that.

Abby Olcese (52:17.689)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (52:17.75)
But now thankfully we're at the point where like, okay, like the males need, they can do their male characters and the females can like do their better focus, which I don't know, it's a whole thing. It's kind of like, he doesn't know, he doesn't know it.

Abby Olcese (52:31.451)
Yeah, think it's weird that it's a character. Yeah, it's weird that she's a character that you notice her more for her absence than you do for her presence, which I mean, I feel like that's valuable to the film, but it doesn't necessarily give you a lot to work with as an actor.

Eli (52:47.434)
Yeah, yeah, it's just one of those things. It's like, I don't know if I need Spielberg to make films with strong females because I don't know that he would do it well. you know, but yeah, Amy Adams is great in the movie. I really like Amy Adams. This was

Abby Olcese (52:58.894)
That's fair, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Abby Olcese (53:06.442)
yeah, I think she's lovely, yeah. And this is, I'm trying to remember where this is on the, kind of her emergence. Okay.

Eli (53:13.986)
It's like right there at the beginning. was like, this would probably, almost without a doubt would be like her breakout. Probably being in this movie. She, and I mean, she was young.

Abby Olcese (53:22.818)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (53:28.654)
Okay, yeah, because yeah, Junebug is like three years after this. And that's sort of the thing that gets her like, I think she gets an Academy Award nomination from that. Like she gets a lot of like, that's sort of the thing that launches her. But this is maybe, like the first notable thing that you see her in where you're like, that's Amy Adams. Yeah.

Eli (53:33.644)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (53:40.801)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (53:46.218)
Yes. the, yeah. So he, he picked, so she did her audition. She, I love when actors do this, like to stand out in all addiction auditions. did like teeth whitener trays to simulate braces and did like no makeup. Didn't wash her hair, had on like baggy clothes and flat shoes and, like all to be in character and Spielberg loved her audition tape.

Abby Olcese (54:03.586)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (54:12.984)
Sure. Yeah.

Eli (54:15.794)
And I think he picked, it was one of those things where he picked eight or nine tapes to show Leo. And Leo picked her out of those eight or nine, which that's who Spielberg wanted to. It was one of those, I'm gonna show you all these and see if we're on the same page. And yeah, it worked out.

Abby Olcese (54:27.8)
Wow. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (54:33.654)
Sure, yeah. That's, yeah, that's awesome. And I think you kind of see like some of the same things that made her such like so winning in Junebug too is like just sort of this wide-eyed innocence and like desire to want to, you know, be, I don't know, be loved, be appreciated and like kind of to believe what she's being told basically for better or for worse.

Eli (54:45.634)
Hmm.

Eli (54:56.756)
Yes, yes. Which is funny because we've come like, we've almost come like full circle with her her latest movie in Nightvich where she's again once again I guess like with no makeup and baggy clothes but this time being a very aware mom so yes so yeah it's it's I didn't make that connection until now.

Abby Olcese (55:09.826)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (55:14.722)
Yeah, right.

Yeah, in different capacity, yeah, for sure.

Eli (55:25.814)
I hadn't seen this movie until recently, that movie until recently. yeah, I thought it was fun. It wasn't like my favorite, but I thought it was good and interesting at least. Like, I just like it when directors make interesting movies.

Abby Olcese (55:29.516)
Yeah, it's yeah, I liked it.

Abby Olcese (55:35.438)
Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (55:43.672)
Yeah, yeah, and I can tell this was a very personal one for, for Mariel Heller, so.

Eli (55:47.682)
Martin Sheen, Roger Strong, he's just Martin Sheen.

Abby Olcese (55:53.984)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's very weird to have like, I think I made a note of this, of just like, we're very Southern, we're very Lutheran, and we're very Irish, which is just like, those are three very different things to have them all here. Irish, Lutheran, Southerners, it's just, all right.

Eli (56:08.98)
Yes. Irish Lutherans? Is that a thing?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. yeah, he, mean, yeah. Yeah. you know, he, but he, he's the great, like, I guess, like well to do, but like very American dad, in this movie. So

Abby Olcese (56:23.838)
Martin Sheen is one of those things.

Abby Olcese (56:39.626)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I almost feel like yeah, because West Wing is happening around now. And so like he he is he literally is America's dad at this point. So that's yeah.

Eli (56:45.394)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yeah. They actually got him. They didn't think they were going to get him, but they I think they only had him for one weekend. And they did all of his stuff in one weekend. Yeah. Yeah. Jennifer Garner plays Cheryland. She got one scene, but it's a pretty big deal because it's Jennifer Garner, know, another kind of.

Abby Olcese (56:56.558)
Mm.

Okay.

Abby Olcese (57:04.568)
Pretty efficient. Good job.

Abby Olcese (57:12.642)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Eli (57:18.626)
This movie has like four like very early performances from some pretty like well-known actresses now. And yeah, which is very interesting. But Spielberg kind of has done that through his career. He'll like find these young talents that go on, you know, to do bigger things in the future out of his movies. But yeah, she was sort of...

Abby Olcese (57:27.542)
Yeah. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (57:34.914)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (57:42.38)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Eli (57:48.456)
known Garner at this point from Alias. But yeah, this is definitely like a step from TV to the big screen for her. Yeah. Two of the others would be Ellen Pompeo, who plays Marcy the stewardess, and Elizabeth Banks, who plays the bank teller. So yeah, it's four

Abby Olcese (57:51.17)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (57:59.628)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (58:06.062)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (58:11.726)
Yeah. Yeah.

Eli (58:17.79)
young up-and-coming actresses all of which Leo hooks up with. We're just like, of course. And no, in the movie. I mean, I guess like I don't know that for sure in real life.

Abby Olcese (58:22.926)
In the movie or IRL? Yeah, no, in the movie.

Abby Olcese (58:35.054)
Yeah, it's yeah, no, it does make me I don't know watching thinking about like the characters age at that point was very I don't know, especially because I think it feels like Jennifer Garner's character is like older by design and It's it just like what? No, there's a part of me that feels very uncomfortable knowing that he was not like

Eli (58:52.481)
Yeah.

Eli (58:56.78)
Ha ha ha ha.

Abby Olcese (59:01.71)
He wasn't even 18. The character wasn't like Frank. know. Ebeg Neil isn't even 18 at this point, but it's. It seems consensual, so I won't. It's the 60s. I won't get too mad about it, but like there was a little bit of like a just bing in the back of brain going.

Eli (59:06.806)
Yes.

Eli (59:10.816)
Yeah.

Eli (59:17.622)
Yeah, you know, I guess it is what it is a little bit. They're right.

Abby Olcese (59:24.278)
Yes, I mean, yeah, it's it's from a book that he wrote. He claimed it all happened. So it's yeah.

Eli (59:30.336)
which, you know, it's kind of like, did you really though? Yeah. Right.

Abby Olcese (59:34.55)
I mean, yeah, I know it's pretty highly debatable how much of it actually is true, but like, you know. In terms of fealty to the book, it's pretty close.

Eli (59:41.003)
The others.

Yeah. Yeah, so there's a few more names in there that I'm not going to get into because they're pretty minor parts. Frank Abagnale Jr., the real Frank Abagnale Jr. does play a French policeman in the movie though. So that's a fun fact. I guess he's one of those guys towards the end that arrests him in that little French town or whatever.

Abby Olcese (59:53.176)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:00:01.42)
No kidding. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:00:13.591)
Okay.

Eli (01:00:13.594)
yeah. okay. Let's, let's jump into production. we'll talk a little bit about production and then, I know I only have you for a little while longer, so we'll do a little bit of production and then jump over to, kind of like some themes and takeaways. Cause I definitely want to hear some of your thoughts as far as that goes. so I did want to talk with you about the opening titles.

Abby Olcese (01:00:19.042)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:00:37.74)
Yeah, absolutely.

Eli (01:00:43.242)
which are incredible. think, yes, it's like, I think it's my favorite, like, beginning of a Spielberg movie. It's just like, it's just fun to watch and like the animation, the music, it's all the colors, it's all working together.

Abby Olcese (01:00:43.474)
yeah. Mm-hmm. Got that, got that Saul Bass vibe going.

Abby Olcese (01:00:55.128)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, we talked about the John Williams music kind of establishing the pace and part of the style really well. And I feel like the titles are like kind of the other half of that, where like it just throws you in immediately where you're like, this is the kind of movie we're watching. This is what it's going to look like. This is what it's going to feel like. This is what we're throwing back to. Again, like when you mentioned like all the other directors who were considered for this and like I could see the kinds of movies that they would make. I think the only other person that I would see coming close to

Eli (01:01:10.453)
Yes.

Eli (01:01:15.19)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:01:29.454)
a style like this and a vibe like this might be Milos Forman. I think everybody else would be very much like putting their particular stamp on it and it wouldn't be quite like this. And it wouldn't be nearly as fun.

Eli (01:01:43.072)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I could see that. Because I mean, so Amadeus would be like the big Foreman movie. And that movie is kind of fun. And in a lot of ways, so.

Abby Olcese (01:01:54.092)
Yeah, it is. I mean, I think like also the People versus Larry Flint he made in the 90s. And then a few years after this, he makes Man and the Moon about Andy Kaufman. And he has like this kind of interesting like I always think it's because he's because he's Czech and because he came from from a place where like he was making films before he left for America where it was becoming increasingly difficult to

Eli (01:02:01.088)
Okay.

Eli (01:02:06.218)
Yeah, yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:02:19.266)
kind of celebrate or even be an independent person and to like have kind of full freedom of expression. And so I feel like once he gets to the United States, a lot of the movies that he makes are kind of celebrating people who were really able to do that. A lot of them are like movies that are either based on books or based on like real people. A lot of them are iconic lasts. So I could see him doing something kind of similarly effective with this, but it's.

Eli (01:02:22.72)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:02:33.708)
Yeah, that makes sense.

Eli (01:02:45.28)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:02:46.518)
and maybe kind of having that sense of like delight and joy that you see in some of his earlier Czech films. anyway, that's way off track. I would love to see the Milos Forman version of this movie. It would be a very different movie.

Eli (01:02:51.158)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:02:55.074)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it would be, but yeah, I don't think it would be worse. Just different, Yeah, yeah, but I love that opening titles. It's kind of like a callback to opening titles like North by Northwest and Charade and those sorts of movies, so love.

Abby Olcese (01:03:08.212)
No, no, I don't think so either. I think it would just be different.

Abby Olcese (01:03:19.712)
Yes, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I love that you brought up charade. Charade's great and was that a Mancini score? I can't remember but yeah, yeah, similar, similar vibe, so.

Eli (01:03:28.598)
I don't know. I don't know. Yeah.

I wish I had all that information filed away where I could be like, but I do not.

Abby Olcese (01:03:36.374)
I know. Yeah, I'm not fully a human IMDB at this point, but yeah.

Eli (01:03:42.058)
Yeah, not yet. But yeah, so one of the things about this movie that you wouldn't necessarily think about watching it, but once you know it, you're like, OK, this makes sense, is that this was a super fast paced shoot. There was a 52 day shoot, which is not very long.

Abby Olcese (01:03:52.11)
It is a fancini score, okay.

Abby Olcese (01:04:03.943)
yeah, sure.

Abby Olcese (01:04:09.856)
No, not at all.

Eli (01:04:11.43)
And there's a lot of movie. Spielberg talks about he's never worked faster his whole career than he did in this movie. They filmed in 147 different locations.

Abby Olcese (01:04:23.722)
Wow, and 52 days like that's

Eli (01:04:25.29)
Yes, in 52 days. So at times he said they would film in three locations in one day, on certain days.

Abby Olcese (01:04:33.176)
That's exhausting, like in three different cities or three different locations in a single place.

Eli (01:04:38.142)
No, so I mean, they did stuff in New York. So when you say location, so in New York, have the apartment is a location, Chase Bank is a location, JFK is a location. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:04:47.17)
Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, like sets. Okay. That makes a lot more sense. Still, that's like you're going between like different spots and you're losing time by doing that. That's a lot of setup. That's a lot of work.

Eli (01:04:54.996)
Yes. Yeah. So they do, they do that in New York. They film in Alcatraz and San Francisco. They film in other California locations. They're in Montreal for some shoots. They do the French, the scenes that are in France and Quebec. so they're just all over the place in this movie. so I think what comes across in that is one, like the pace.

Abby Olcese (01:05:02.956)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:05:12.044)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:05:15.714)
That's crazy.

Eli (01:05:23.146)
that you feel in the movie come, I think is there because of the way they shot this movie. It's just, everyone's in that like mindset of...

Abby Olcese (01:05:25.262)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:05:32.448)
Yeah, it's, but it like, yeah, it's something that aids the film though. Like that momentum is something you want, which is good. Like I think it ultimately helps.

Eli (01:05:38.923)
Yes.

Eli (01:05:42.666)
Yeah, because this movie would be, it would feel so like fragmented and even like, yeah, if it didn't have that like go, go, go pace, then it would, that makes it feel like a chase. Like you want it to feel a bit like a chase, but like it's not really a chase if you really think about it. Like it's a guy sitting in an office wondering where this guy is and maybe every once in a while having a lead.

Abby Olcese (01:05:53.123)
Hmm

Abby Olcese (01:05:56.503)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:06:02.339)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:06:05.741)
Yeah.

Eli (01:06:08.3)
But the way the movie's shot and edited together, it makes it feel like it's constantly in motion, which is really impressive, I think. It's just one of those things, the pace of shooting and then the way it's edited together is just something a lot of people don't think about is with that really makes or breaks movies like this. yeah, so big props. I mean, Michael Kahn is a great.

Abby Olcese (01:06:14.132)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Abby Olcese (01:06:32.483)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:06:38.188)
great editor.

Abby Olcese (01:06:39.33)
Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say like that, that's really a miracle of editing is being able to make that feel consistent and not rushed. So yeah, that's great.

Eli (01:06:45.834)
Yes. Yeah. So you know, you just really feel that energy in the movie. So it was when I read that, when I was reading about the movie and watching the behind the scenes, I was like, okay, that makes total sense. But Leo also had the flu for half the shooting. So yeah, so he is just like miserable for half the time. So yeah. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:07:00.994)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:07:05.768)
gosh, that's miserable.

Yeah. So he actually looks and feels the way that Frank does when he gets picked up from. Use it. It might not have been. buddy.

Eli (01:07:16.672)
Yeah, maybe that wasn't Crawling down the prison hallway. Yeah, man. And he does look tired a lot in this movie, which is feels like it should be in character because he's always on the move. So he should be tired, but he probably was in real life as well. So, yeah. Yeah, I really think.

Abby Olcese (01:07:29.015)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:07:33.518)
For sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Eli (01:07:47.424)
I really think also one of the things that Spielberg talks about is he was working, like he was thinking back on stuff he had learned from Frank Capra. I guess looking into Frank Capra about like comedy, which is just like pushing actors like to speed up so that there there's some improvisation that comes out of it. and they did that in a lot of, for one, like they're shooting

Abby Olcese (01:08:04.75)
Hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:08:08.28)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:08:16.386)
so much they're having to go so fast that he kind of like has to go like, okay, let's do another take another take. Um, and he, he talked about how like a lot of Leo's takes that are in the movie was his last take because he'd be like, okay, last take, throw caution to the wind. And then that's like the best take. Um, and then walk-in would do, he talked about walking, like every take was very, very different. Um,

Abby Olcese (01:08:33.44)
Nice. Nice.

Abby Olcese (01:08:42.286)
Mm.

Eli (01:08:42.752)
So I guess that's kind of like Walken's acting style is I'm going to do different every take and let them pick which one is best. there's like a antidote they tell in the making of where like the scene and the like really nice restaurant where Walken like the Abagnale senior kind of like starts breaking up and and tearing up. That was just like after they shot that Walken was like, I'm sorry, like

Abby Olcese (01:08:51.82)
Yeah, I could see that.

Abby Olcese (01:09:08.45)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:09:12.13)
I don't know, I was just kind of in the moment. I know that's not really what we were going for with this scene in Spielberg. I was like, no, that's the one we're going to use. That was great. Yeah. So it's always fun to hear those, those kinds of stories, but yeah, we've, we've talked a little bit about the production design, but we should probably mention that Leo wore over a hundred costumes in this movie. Yeah. Yes. They, the...

Abby Olcese (01:09:19.394)
Yeah, it's perfect, yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:09:36.738)
wow. wow.

Eli (01:09:41.91)
The costume, like the design team talked about like going through tons and tons of period magazines. and then on top of that, have like throughout the movie, you have like three to 4,000 extras to costume as well. and yeah, so they're just like, yeah, they, said they were like, yeah. I mean, you have stewardesses, you have like, you know, young adults at the Atlanta house, you have.

Abby Olcese (01:09:54.12)
my gosh. That's, yeah, that's exhausting.

That's a lot of stewardesses, man. That's, yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:10:11.458)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:10:12.514)
I mean, it's just endless. you have all the doctors. Yep. Yeah. FBI sets you have. Yeah. It's yeah, it's a lot. and they really like, they did, they had to like do a lot of repurposing of sets too, because I mean, you're shooting in JFK. So you have to like hide stuff that's modern and like put up stuff that's from the era. So

Abby Olcese (01:10:14.254)
An entire engagement party full of debutantes. That's, yeah, they're big sets.

Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:10:38.892)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eli (01:10:40.544)
Because it's like so much location shooting, there's a lot of that too. So yeah, huge props to those guys.

Abby Olcese (01:10:44.802)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I always think of just like, the historical accuracy and continuity stuff like that. I mean, that is its own role in a production design department. And like the amount of research that goes into like, what every little thing would have looked like. There was a guy who used to do, I think he still does do like graphic design and production design on a number of different movies that came through KU and did a talk and he had just worked on

Eli (01:10:57.921)
Yes.

Eli (01:11:03.35)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:11:15.022)
No Country for Old Men. that was, think, the first time I was in college. And it was the first time that I'd really heard about what that looks like on a set. And it was the first time I'd ever really thought about the amount of attention to detail that has to go into some forms of production design of just even down to a bubblegum wrapper. Just what would that have looked like? How do you create that? How do you make it look both of the time and also old at the same time? It's a lot of thought.

Eli (01:11:16.821)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:11:37.61)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even like they have, you end up with a lot of consultants, like they had an FBI consultant to help with all the FBI stuff. And that guy kind of talks about how like he was, he was in the FBI at this time. And so the FBI scenes, he's like, it felt like being transported back to that era, like being on those sets, which is, you know, cool to hear, you know, he's authenticating like

Abby Olcese (01:11:45.55)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:12:01.567)
Wow, yeah.

Eli (01:12:05.558)
the way they looked, the way they talked, like the set, the way the workroom looked. So there is so much detail in all that.

Abby Olcese (01:12:13.112)
Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah. Which I think, I mean, also just the way that you see Frank perfectly replicating those checks, right? Like I feel like that's not a dissimilar kind of a job, right? Like you're making sure the logo looks right, that the wear on the paper is correct. Like it's its own kind of form of forgery.

Eli (01:12:26.103)
Yeah.

Eli (01:12:33.088)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, we should probably talk about, let's, let's, let's kind of skip down, you know, before I have to let you go for this episode and, let's talk a little bit about like, just things we really loved in this movie. because that's, I love to talk about like scenes and images that like were intriguing or like interesting. And I think that's one of them is just.

Abby Olcese (01:12:51.512)
Sure.

Abby Olcese (01:13:02.126)
Yeah.

Eli (01:13:03.016)
Though every time it's like this is like Spielberg at his best as far as like insert shots go of like this is what's happening I'm gonna give you some like quick insert shots and you can put all the pieces together of what he's doing like when he's taking the labels off the little plastic planes and that's such

Abby Olcese (01:13:11.916)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:13:19.053)
Yeah.

Yeah, which is that was that was an image that stuck with me, I think, for the first time that I watched it, again, not having watched it for years until I watched it to prepare for the podcast. And that was like, that was the one image that I remember just like stuck in my brain.

Eli (01:13:25.931)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:13:34.624)
Yeah. Well, it's like, yeah, well, it's a great image because, you know, he's doing the first one and it works. And then it does another series of insert search shots where it's like a bunch of planes in the tub and a bunch of checks laying on the ground. and you're like, he's really going after it, you know? and yeah, that's just too, like, that's like such efficient filmmaking of just like, I'm going to show you what he's doing and

Abby Olcese (01:13:42.135)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:13:47.934)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:13:54.029)
Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:14:02.029)
Yeah.

Eli (01:14:03.926)
I'm going to cover like months and months of his life just with this sequence of images.

Abby Olcese (01:14:09.506)
Yeah, that's so interesting. wonder, yeah. This is just a completely random thing, but I'm a huge, I mean, now that you've my book, you know too, I'm a Paddington super fan. And so like one of the interesting things in the first movie is that like, you see Paddington in the boat and he's got his little jar of marmalade and he looks it out. And then by the end, by the time he gets to London, you see like just piles and piles of empty jars of marmalade and you're like.

Eli (01:14:19.49)
Mm.

Eli (01:14:29.799)
Ha ha ha ha.

Abby Olcese (01:14:31.95)
it's been a while, it's been a few months. It's a similar showing of the passage of time. wonder if that was, I don't know, similar inspirations, because I know those movies pull from all kinds of other movies all the time. So anyway, just a thought.

Eli (01:14:44.286)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I love, I love like Paddington when Paddington calls like back to Mission Impossible. It's the best. man. I'm kind of upset. I know there's a bunny trail, but I am upset that, we're not getting, my mind is blank. the same director for this new one. Paul King. Yeah. So I'm wary. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:14:52.726)
Yes, my gosh, yes, yeah, that's, yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:15:05.238)
Yeah, Paul King isn't coming back for the third one. I know it's yeah, the vibes look like they'll be similar enough. But yeah, I don't know if the filmmaking will be quite as like high quality without you realizing that it's really high quality, which is the thing that I really love about his work.

Eli (01:15:17.994)
Yeah, yeah. Yes, yeah, I agree. I love those movies. They're so good. Yeah, what were some like really, other than that, like sequences or images maybe that stood out when you watched this time?

Abby Olcese (01:15:24.234)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:15:34.272)
Yeah, gosh, think one thing that really stuck out to me, I think maybe because I just kept thinking about this in conversation with the Fabelmans is like when he comes back to visit his mom briefly, like he kind of breaks away from Carl and he goes to see his mom and she's married and they have a kid and that kid has no idea who he is. And it's at Christmas, I think, because like there's a Christmas tree in house. And I feel like that house looks...

Eli (01:15:48.641)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:15:58.559)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:16:03.138)
fairly similar to the house that's supposed to be like his childhood house at the beginning of that movie, at the beginning of the Fablemans rather. And I think maybe it kind of strikes a similar thing of like being on the outside and looking in and wanting to have what somebody else has. That's, yeah, a weird kind of one-off image that just kind of, it's a very small scene, but it really hit me interestingly this time out.

Eli (01:16:08.32)
Yeah.

Eli (01:16:17.63)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Eli (01:16:26.186)
Yeah. Yeah, it's, well, we should probably ask the question, like, is this a Christmas movie? Because it's...

Abby Olcese (01:16:34.062)
I think it is in some ways, yeah, yeah.

Eli (01:16:36.67)
It is. Yeah. Well, what's interesting. So there's this book, or I don't know if now that I'm thinking about it, I can't remember. Cause I wrote these notes a while back. I don't remember if this is a book or an article. but it's written by Alan Vanneman called Steven Spielberg, a Jew in America, deconstructing catch me if you can. And he interprets the film as like an allegory of Jewish identity in America, which is interesting.

Abby Olcese (01:16:56.013)
Hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:17:04.045)
Hmm.

Eli (01:17:04.938)
Living on the fringes of society, changing your identity to escape social determinism, chasing success. And as along the lines of what we're talking about, integrating into WASP family model, with, and the Christmas references are a big part of that. and that's a big part of Spielberg's childhood of like, he, he really like had a hard time being Jewish growing up. And one of the manifestations of that is like,

Abby Olcese (01:17:18.712)
Sure. Yeah.

Eli (01:17:34.986)
wanting to do Christmas and not being able to do Christmas growing up and all his friends getting to do Christmas and have Christmas trees and do presents and all that. And so like, you can definitely see that like all through this movie. So yeah, I think it's an interesting interpretation.

Abby Olcese (01:17:42.264)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:17:48.92)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's, yeah, it's an interesting, maybe it's a Christmas movie for people who don't like Christmas or for people who have like a very contentious relationship with Christmas. I think I could see that. Yeah.

Eli (01:18:01.994)
Yeah. Well, like as far as Spielberg goes, it's almost like, like you were saying, it's this outside looking in, like I want that, but it's, but it's not, but I can't have it sort of feeling. cause that's

Abby Olcese (01:18:14.484)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think it's in, yeah, it's not the same thing, but it's still kind of chasing a version of normalcy or perceived normalcy that isn't yours. And I think the thing that makes it doubly frustrating for Frank in that moment is that it's from somebody who he knows and loves and who has been able to find that, but without him. So that's another part of what makes that scene so heartbreaking.

Eli (01:18:24.502)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:18:35.956)
Yes.

Eli (01:18:40.5)
Yeah, and mean there's just like, there's almost like endless parallels to Spielberg's life with this movie. I mean, yeah, the mom leaving for the friend, you know, yeah, living kind of like the escapist fantasy version of a life. that's, you know, Spielberg like finds that in making movies and Abagnale

Abby Olcese (01:18:48.226)
Yeah, there's a lot.

Abby Olcese (01:19:00.867)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:19:04.653)
Yeah.

Eli (01:19:09.218)
found that in like being a con man.

Abby Olcese (01:19:12.93)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think there's something in there too of like not really knowing your own identity. I think Frank doesn't know his own identity. He's trying to construct one. And it's all, all of it is based on what he thinks other people would want him to be or to appear like. So like he's very good at appearing to be what other people want him to be in that moment. Like starting from like the moment where he pretends to be the...

Eli (01:19:25.26)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:19:32.299)
Yes.

Abby Olcese (01:19:43.122)
substitute teacher in class. Just because it's like his first day at a new school and he doesn't want to like stand out and he doesn't like all the other kids so he's just like whatever I'm just gonna take control of the classroom and make them like me.

Eli (01:19:44.598)
Yes. Yeah.

Eli (01:19:52.822)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And it's almost like, you almost wonder if like Spielberg is like, feels like a con man himself of like, I, you know, I'm making these movies to express these things about like, how I feel and who I am and like, and even the degree of like, kind of like changing with the whims of what the people want from you and like,

Abby Olcese (01:20:03.758)
Sure.

Abby Olcese (01:20:13.954)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:20:21.164)
Yeah. Yeah. I wonder.

Eli (01:20:21.186)
in the movies he makes, know, Spielberg can't do serious adult dramas. And so he's like, this is what people want from me. I need to try to do this for them.

Abby Olcese (01:20:27.488)
Exactly, yeah.

Yeah, and I feel like he's in kind of an interesting transitional moment in his career at this point. And this is like, as it's not the first time, but because I think we have like his big serious dramas that are, you know, like Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List and Amistad up to this point. But this one strikes this interesting balance between kind of whimsy and like

Eli (01:20:36.962)
Mm.

Eli (01:20:45.302)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:20:57.262)
adulthood, like a certain mature maturity that I think kind of come to characterize a lot of his later films. And this is this is kind of like an early indicator of what that's gonna look like moving forward. Because I'm trying to remember is World of the Worlds after this? Okay, yeah, because I feel like that's sort of the last of his like, you know, Tom Cruise sci fi movies. And then we have the terminal.

Eli (01:21:14.71)
Yes. Yeah.

Eli (01:21:26.304)
Yeah, it's a, yeah, the terminals, the right after this for Spielberg and then War of the Worlds. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:21:26.786)
kind of in close conversation with this too.

Abby Olcese (01:21:33.162)
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because that yeah, I think the only thing that kind of throws me off a little bit is Ready Player One. And that kind of is something that is very much like playing on nostalgia for the kinds of movies that he made much earlier in his career. That

Eli (01:21:45.376)
Yeah.

Eli (01:21:50.986)
Yeah, but that comes after a string of like Lincoln, Bridges of Spies, Munich, The Post. I mean you have the BFG in there, but that's like a little bit of an outlier.

Abby Olcese (01:21:56.566)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. That's true. Yeah. I feel like the post is like tone wise, maybe in closer conversation with this movie a little bit. Just in terms of it being both like, you know, kind of serious minded, like having serious things to say, but also having a really good time saying them.

Eli (01:22:10.944)
Yes. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:22:20.886)
It's, that's the kind of vibe that I associate more with his later work, although I know like there's also like plenty of stuff that he switches in between along the way. When he's at his best these days, that's the kind of thing that I gravitate toward.

Eli (01:22:35.008)
Yeah, well it's funny because like they're up to this point he still was like very there was like still a lot of contention about him between different views of him with critics that you know had followed him through his career up to this point and it seemed like from my research this was one where this was like finally the one you would think it would be you know Schindler's List or Save It Private Ryan but

Abby Olcese (01:22:48.184)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:23:04.493)
Right.

Eli (01:23:04.524)
there is still contention about even those. And it seems like this is the one where finally everyone was kind of like, OK, yeah, that's a good movie.

Abby Olcese (01:23:15.02)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it strikes a balance between what we're used to seeing from him and what think critics wanted to see from him in a really interesting way that I think he keeps trying to work on. And I I this is kind of a little bit of a rabbit trail. I feel like this is kind of informed this and the terminal and a few of his other movies are really informed by his relationship with Robert Zemeckis in a big way.

Eli (01:23:22.828)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:23:26.209)
Yeah.

Eli (01:23:40.182)
Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:23:41.166)
kind of the idea of like the American dream and interrogating like whether or not it works and just like mounds and mounds of nostalgia for like the stuff that was around when you were growing up. I feel like that all kind of exists in conversation with each other in a way that I think you see in Zemeckis's movies too.

Eli (01:23:46.259)
Mm-hmm.

Eli (01:24:02.186)
Yeah, absolutely. And, and really like, I really think like you're, you're nailing just like why it worked. I wrote down this quote from Andrew Seris, and the observer at the time. And he said, of this movie, quote, that rarity of rarities, a mainstream American feel good movie with both charm and intelligence unquote. So it's, it's, you know, you're on par with Andrew Seris. So that's pretty good.

Abby Olcese (01:24:24.322)
Hmm

Eli (01:24:30.068)
It's a good take if you're on par with him. Yeah. I mean, you had the same takeaway as Andrew Seris, so you're doing something right,

Abby Olcese (01:24:30.542)
That's a massive compliment you just gave me. Thank you.

Wonderful. I will take that any day of the week.

Eli (01:24:45.378)
Yeah, I mean he's a great critic. you know, yeah. Man, any, I guess before I have to let you go for this episode, I might hit some other points solo, but what's maybe like a final takeaway from Catch Me If You Can? A lot of weight on this question. No pressure.

Abby Olcese (01:24:48.568)
For sure, yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:24:59.566)
sure.

Abby Olcese (01:25:06.116)
gosh. Yeah, I think overall, I feel kind of silly for saying this because I know a lot of people really do like this movie. I just hadn't rewatched it in a really long time. I think I liked it, but kind of wrote it off when I saw it.

Eli (01:25:26.338)
Hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:25:26.598)
And watching it again made me, and even talking about it with you on this episode made me really appreciate it in a much deeper way than I think I had really given it credit for at the time. So it's not it's not Lesser Spielberg. I don't know that there really is such a thing as Lesser Spielberg, but like it exists on a higher, yeah. Yeah. I mean, like nobody ever talks about always, but that's a nice movie. It's perfectly fine.

Eli (01:25:37.387)
Yeah.

Eli (01:25:43.744)
Yeah, I'll let you know there is. I've seen them in this series.

Abby Olcese (01:25:56.783)
I think Ready Player One, that's a movie that I forget he made. I would call that lesser.

Eli (01:26:04.674)
I'll say this, 1941 is horrible. It's not funny. There are people that like it out there, and you know, all the best to those people, but I don't know what's wrong with them, because it was not funny.

Abby Olcese (01:26:07.249)
of course. Yes. Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's I've heard that, which is why I haven't seen it.

Yeah.

Yeah, think even Spielberg himself talks about it not being a good movie. yeah, but I think it exists on a, I'm willing to, yeah, yeah. This movie I'm willing to move up really significantly in my rankings. yeah, makes me want to kind of revisit that period of his career even more.

Eli (01:26:25.29)
Yeah. Yeah.

It's an anomaly.

Eli (01:26:36.352)
Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. It's to...

Eli (01:26:42.722)
Yeah, I mean, so for me, it's like in that like middle tier of his movies, which is like, I don't know. Like you said, it's like, okay, middle tier Spielberg movies, like great, like bring them on, you know, I'll watch them several times that, you know, um, but yeah, solid. mean,

Abby Olcese (01:26:48.526)
Mm.

Abby Olcese (01:26:53.11)
It's still pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.

Abby Olcese (01:27:01.954)
Yeah.

Eli (01:27:05.598)
Solid like for me. It's like a solid seven out of ten, but in their right mood I might give it like eight out of ten sort of movie, you That's kind of how I feel about it. Yeah, it's like a fun watch. It's not like super deep. It doesn't get super deep into stuff like

Abby Olcese (01:27:13.272)
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's a good assessment. Yeah, yeah.

Eli (01:27:25.396)
Minority report and AI that came right before this I think like have a ton of ideas that are really interesting And that's like more my thing so I'm gonna like those more but like just throw a movie on and it's a really great watch and and an interesting both like visually and emotionally like Great storytelling like that's what this movie is. So

Abby Olcese (01:27:27.532)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:27:32.586)
Yeah, absolutely.

Abby Olcese (01:27:37.442)
Mm-hmm.

Abby Olcese (01:27:50.956)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, like I mentioned before, I think it also makes me want to rewatch Fablemen's a little bit more and to kind of reengage with it that way. think they those are the two of them are movies that really play on each other in in ways that I hadn't really considered until until now. So yeah.

Eli (01:28:06.292)
yeah. Yeah. And honestly, like several of his movies would play well with the fablements, but this one probably like in tone and some of the themes probably like would be one of the higher ones to pair with it for sure. But yeah, thanks a ton for talking about this movie with me. Had a great time. And yeah, we'll have you back on to talk about

Abby Olcese (01:28:12.596)
of course, yeah, absolutely.

Abby Olcese (01:28:22.199)
Yeah.

Eli (01:28:35.148)
Films for All Seasons in an episode very soon. Usually I do them back to back, but just like with the way the release calendar is working out with... I mean the Oscars, you you gotta talk about the Oscars on Oscar weekend.

Abby Olcese (01:28:36.588)
Yeah, absolutely.

Abby Olcese (01:28:44.354)
Totally get it.

Abby Olcese (01:28:50.252)
Of course, yeah, you can't not. get it, I get it completely. You're catching me like right after the Golden Globes, which I still watched mostly because it was snowing, but I had a great time. So yes, I get it. We're, yeah, we're in the full award season swing. So yeah.

Eli (01:28:58.016)
Yeah, I did not watch them, but I did keep up with who was winning throughout the night. Yes. But yeah, thanks for coming on and I'm looking forward to that future conversation.

Abby Olcese (01:29:09.516)
Yeah, me too. Thanks.

Eli (00:03.554)
I really enjoyed having Abby on. I wanted to make sure that I hit a couple more interesting things about the movie as well. So I'm just going to jump right back into that. We talked about those opening credits. I did want to give credit where credits do. It was made by this French duo, Florence Degas and Olivier Kunzel. And man, they did such a great.

job with that. So I wanted to give them a shout out. But yeah, this movie, I didn't mention before, was shot from February 11th to May 4th, 2002. So that's that 52 day shoot that we talked about. And man, they were working with a $52 million budget and they did so they took that so far with this movie because it feels so big. And, you know, we mentioned like all the different locations and that

That kind of adds to like the adventurous feel of the movie to me and also just makes it feel so expansive and big. And yeah, it really, really goes a long way. Yeah. So a couple of production things that I thought were interesting. So yeah, we didn't talk a ton about the cinematography.

we, talked a little bit about it. Kaminsky does, I think a really good job with this. he's such a ver- I feel like he's a very versatile, cinematographer. his stuff doesn't always work for me. the minority report was very like strange to me. The washed out colors and, and brightness of it were strange to me.

I still really, really, really liked that movie. It didn't like turn me off, but, but this is kind of the opposite of that. It's, it's like very colorful. it's, it's visually like pretty simple. he's not like overdoing a whole lot. but yeah, you see all the colors they, so like, yeah, I guess like you could contrast this with saving private Ryan where they like,

Eli (02:29.826)
desaturated everything in both like while filming and in post and in this one like they want to make sure you feel all the idealistic 60s colors. He even I read that Kaminsky even paved the had the paved streets like constantly sprayed with water to kind of improve like the reflection and add like this luster to all the images.

And like, especially like to contrast that with like the very austere interiors of the FBI offices. So I think that worked really well. we talked a good bit about the production design, some other really fun things about that. They, they did purposely design the movie to start off a little bit more drab and monochromatic. if you pay attention, you'll see it gets more and more colorful as he gets more and more into his schemes.

which is fun if you pay attention to that. yeah, it's just, we talked about all the detail. One of the things I didn't mention while I was talking with Abby is that there were 100 to 150 different IDs and documents made for this movie. So much attention to detail. Very, very cool.

And then, one more thing along the production lines. They, the music that, you have, you have the score that we talked about the, John Williams score. but you also have a bit of a soundtrack with this movie and they used period top 40 tracks throughout. you have like Nat King Cole's, the Christmas song, dusty Springfield's, the look of love. have Judy Garland's, Embraceable You and Frank Sinatra's Come Fly With Me.

So they were really like hitting those period top 40 tracks, which I think really is a fun, another like just fun feature of the movie that you get. But yeah, the movie came out in May on May 31st of 2002. And what's, what's crazy is no, sorry. The movie did not come out then the movie came out Christmas 2002.

Eli (04:49.058)
But back in May 2002, really right after they're finishing, they wrap this up and then at the end of May, Spielberg gets a degree in film and electronic arts from California State University. He was 56 years old and I guess he had always wanted to kind of like actually get a degree and do some more studying of film. And so he finished shooting this movie and then finishes a...

Degree and in film and electronic arts. So that's that's kind of a cool little thing that that Spielberg did and then later in that The year sorry, I got my dates mixed up It releases on Christmas Day 2002. This is five days after gangs of New York Which is very interesting. We we talked about that. I couldn't remember earlier, but I have it here my notes luckily that Yeah, five days after games in New York. So you have Leo

Uh, on December 20th and then December 25th with these big movies. Um, and yeah, this, think this ends up really overshadowing gangs in New York, which I think is kind of an underrated Scorsese. Uh, I think it's very good. Um, but yes, this definitely overshadowed it in the box office where it made, uh, $352 million worldwide. opened at number two.

with $48 million as opening weekend. it was number two to Lord of the Rings, the two towers, but that kind of makes sense. yeah. we talked a little bit about the, critical reception. This, there, there were people that thought it was just a frivolous, palate cleanser between more important stuff. but those were few and far between most critics really like thought this was just a solid movie and not, I think they're right.

think it is just a really good solid movie. did get some Oscar nominations. It got nominated for supporting actor for Christopher Walken, which I think is really good. We talked about how Walken really like kind of does a lot with a little in this movie. And then John Williams for the original score, which I think is very deserving. I love, love, love the score in this movie. It's kind of going to the doodly-doodly.

Eli (07:10.574)
in my head right now. yeah, and yeah, it actually led to a Broadway musical comedy nine years later. Fun fact, I had no idea about that. Yeah, a little bit more about the movie. So the real Frank, a little bit about him.

$2.5 million in bad checks in 26 countries and all 50 states before his 22nd birthday. Crazy. He served time in France and Sweden before he returned to the US. And it was at age 26 that he started to work with the FBI on parole. You know, they kind of do some title cards at the end talking about how he's developed many of the security features in documents used around the world.

which is true and he actually he said the most amazing thing he's ever done is to take his past and turn it into what he has done today which i think is cool you know it's it's him kind of thinking like those are really fun but the most amazing thing is that like i've actually like made a difference now like i've changed and made a difference that's the more amazing thing which i think is a cool like

endearing takeaway that is probably true. Yeah. Yeah. It's I think

So I do need to hit some Spielberg distinctions. That is a big thing that I always love to talk about. And this has got basically all of them. All of the Spielberg distinctives is a very, very Spielberg movie. It's got low angle closeups, which is like, I think at this point is the Spielberg distinctive shot is the low angle closeup. Really, really, he really is hitting on his great sense of space and geography.

Eli (09:18.854)
And you always have like a pretty good sense of where you are and when you are based on just his use of space, his use of like character details. So you're never like, you never like jump from a past event to like him in the present and wonder where you are. You always have a good sense of that. A lot of use of reflections and silhouettes in this movie. And then to just like,

big spillware things, incredibly, incredibly efficient character building in this movie, and then just like great use of tension. yeah, some other like great scenes and images that I wanted to point out. I loved when they pan to his face the first time he flies, like you're like, this is the first time he's ever flown and he's freaked out.

that, kind of stuck out to me. I love, I love all the phone calls. and, and the quotes you get in those two, like the, only know what people tell you and then, you know, handwriting calling him out for, not having anyone else to call. yeah. the, another laugh out loud line is.

how Amy Adams delivers the line, you're not a Lutheran. I love that. Yeah. then one of the things that I was like, Ooh, that's reminds me of AI is when Abignale is being driven away in the French police car and he's like looking out the rear view mirror. kind of reminds me not how the rear view mirror, but out of the back windshield. It reminded me of

the kid in AI like being seen in the rear view mirror when the mom is driving away. I don't know, it's kind of like image wise, those felt like kind of cousins. And then yeah, just loved all that. I did want to touch a little bit on the character kind of juxtaposition of Abagnale and handwriting. Really interesting when you like think about

Eli (11:45.268)
them in juxtaposition to each other so you have like a heady pace versus like inertia character you have feigned indifference and conservative rigidity you kind of have two sides of america with the playboy versus like j. edgar hoover type and yeah it's it so you have like they're they're kind of juxtaposed against each other but then they end up

having this commonality, there are these two long figures that are united through family trauma. And then you end up kind of with this surrogate father surrogate son deal towards the end, which I think is really cool. Molly Haskell commented on that. She said, it goes without saying that Frank will occasionally try to run and Carl will always bring him back.

From here on, they are chained together like two halves of the same man, which indeed they are, the hopelessly yearning child in Spilberg and the earnestly mature man of integrity." So that's from Molly Haskell's biography of Spilberg. Yeah, I love that quote. That kind of sums up that kind of juxtaposition. They're different but the same in a way.

Yeah, know, theme wise, we talked a lot about kind of the different things going on in this movie. It's like, it's not a deep, deep movie, but there are, there is like emotional resonance to be found for sure in this. yeah, it's one of, guess one of the parrot Spielberg parallels that we didn't exactly hit was the fear of being an imposter. And there has to be some degree to which like,

when you have as much success as Spielberg, there's this like, you know, there had to be a feeling of like, this is outrageous to him out times. Like how, what do I do? How can I be this successful? Is it really like, am I really doing this? And you definitely get that feeling in, in the Frank Abagnale Jr. character in this movie. So yeah, that's a feeling shared that

Eli (14:02.742)
Imposter some drone felt felt by any many like very successful high achievers. So And then another thing that we didn't really talk about Earlier is that this movie is like very fast-paced and energetic and fun But there's like this undertone of melancholy Through the movie like this longing for what you don't have. I guess Abby didn't mention that so

I should give credit where credit is due. She did mention that, but we didn't like expound on it. And I just wanted to point that out again. There is this like very, and I think it comes with what we talked about as Spielberg just like being very mature and exploring this like this fun material in a fun way, but also like with the intelligence to like know how to keep that undertone of like sadness there. And, and

You know, you can feel it even if you're having a good time. they're kind of underneath it all. So, yeah. And I guess one of the scenes that were, that I didn't mention earlier that really sticks out is when he's with, the Amy Adams character, I can't think of her name in this moment, but her, he's sitting with her family on the couch and they start singing along with the TV. And, you know, he's.

It's like he's finally found finding what he doesn't have, but needs. he's, you know, it's after that, that like, he calls Frank and tries to get a truce. and you, you, you kind of get like a little bit of Spielberg parallel there too, if like he, he, with Kate Capshaw, he finally found like the family he was looking for and, know, having, they have a bunch of kids and adopt.

adopted kids and it's like he's kind of created this like what he's always needed but didn't have he finally has it now and so you kind of see that there but yeah really fun movie really enjoyed watching it and it was fun talking with Abby about it too just kind of as a final thought

Eli (16:14.606)
Spielberg says this movie reminds him that you can turn your life 180 degrees and make something better of yourself. you know, I mentioned Frank Abagnale Jr. The real Frank Abagnale Jr. said that about his life. That was the most important thing he did was do a 180 and make something of his life. And, you know, Spielberg himself has done this on multiple occasions in his career, kind of reinventing who he is both.

in his professional life with the movies he makes and also in his personal life, as I was just talking about. and I just, I really appreciate that. And I think that here with this movie, he's finally gaining the due credibility as an artist among the critics. So, um, love that. Um, I already talked about, you know, what I would rate this and where I put this in Spielberg's filmography and

Um, I just think it's just super, super solid movie. Um, but yeah, that's, that's really all, uh, I have for this week. Next week, I am going to be talking about Oscar predictions and my favorite movies of 2024. Um, probably talk about some performances, some cinematography, all that fun stuff. So, uh, be looking forward to that next week. That'll come out the Friday before the Oscars.

so hopefully you get to listen to that and hear my predictions before watching the show. but yeah, that's, and then in the next couple of weeks after that, I have an interview with Abby that I mentioned earlier about her book films for all seasons. That'll be, upcoming and also we'll be covering the terminal, which would be the next movie also Tom Hanks. So be looking forward to those two episodes as well.

I didn't ask Abby to share this earlier before she signed off, but you can find her on blue sky is where she mostly is at Abby all Chessy. That's a BBY OLC ESE. and she's, she said she's also occasionally on Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it. And, it's the same handle. So I now link those in the episode description so you can find her.

Eli (18:34.306)
I'll link her book and yeah, be looking forward to that episode where I interview her about her book. It's really great, really interesting. so yeah, be looking for that. But that's all we have for this week. So I've been Eli Price for Abby Alchesi. You've been listening to The Establishing Shot. We'll see you next time.