The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar, The Swan, The Rat Catcher, & Poison (w/ Chase Ables)

Eli Price (00:00.866)
Hello and welcome to the establishing shot of podcasts where we do deep dives into directors and their filmographies. I am here back again, ready to get going with the podcast again, took a long extended break between the Christmas draft and Christmas movie draft we did, that was really fun. And yeah, it took a long break for the holidays and.

kind of the beginning of the year, just getting back into the swing of things before I jumped back into the podcast. So, uh, yeah, I appreciate all the listeners jumping back in with us, uh, here and, uh, I really wanted to do this, uh, this podcast last year and it just didn't work out, just scheduling didn't work out. So we're going to start the year with, uh, episode 30. This is the 30th episode, um, which is pretty exciting.

And yeah, and so we're going to be doing the Wes Anderson shorts. So this is something that I'm going to be doing periodically. So I might do some like in between series or maybe some in the middle of series. If if a director I've covered has a new movie come out, then I want to cover those movies too. So we're going to cover the four Wes Anderson shorts that came out.

on Netflix last year. Those include the wonderful story of Henry Sugar, which was kind of the, I guess, the flagship short of the four and then the three shorter ones, which were the Swan, the Rat Catcher, and Poison. And so, yeah, we're going to be covering all four of those, kind of a package deal today. But yeah, I have back on my brother-in-law, Chase. Hello.

Yeah, Chase is here in the room with me. Um, yes. Uh, it's, it's always fun to do, uh, a kind of in-person when we did it. We did that last time when we covered, uh, aisle dogs. And I think that's the only in-person one I've done with you. Uh, yeah, all the, all the other episodes are kind of over video. And so, um, yeah, we did aisle of dogs. That was fun. Uh, and so.

Eli Price (02:22.702)
He's jumping back in with me to do the Wes Anderson shorts to kick off the year. And yeah, I'm excited. I am too. Yeah. Did you now had you heard about these before they came out? I had. So I had heard about them a while, I guess, whenever they had first gone into development and like it had come out.

I had heard about it and then I kind of completely forgotten about them. Yeah, and then whatever that it finally came around to them coming out I think you had brought it up to me probably. Yeah And I was like, oh, yeah, I remember hearing that he was doing more rolled all stuff. Yeah And yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's um, it's funny It's a weird thing. So Asteroid City came out over the summer and then as the year kept going it's

you know, the news came out, oh, these are going to drop on Netflix. And then they dropped on Netflix and really like the people that were like looking for them and anticipating them probably like jumped on right away. But I feel like they kind of got buried. Yeah, I don't remember like it. It seems like it took a while before I was hearing anything about them. Yeah. They it's like they got buried in Netflix's algorithm, which is very unfortunate.

Um, because as we, we talk about this, you know, I think these are really phenomenal. I think so too. They're, they're a lot of fun. Yeah. Um, so, so yeah, so that's what we're going to do today. We're going to talk about these. Wes Anderson shorts. Um, uh, chase introduced himself on the aisle docs podcast. So if you want to hear more about chase, then you can go, go listen to that one. Uh, so yeah, we'll, we'll just kind of jump, jump right in.

Um, yeah, I, I was really looking forward to this. It's funny. I had, I had gotten this, uh, Wes Anderson film studies notebook. So I've gotten these for all the directors, um, that I've done so far. I've been lucky that he has the guy that makes these like, has a bunch of directors that he makes them for, but not all of them. So I've been lucky to get those and, um, it already actually had, um,

Eli Price (04:42.55)
the wonderful story of Henry Sugar listed as one of the movies within the journal. Oh, cool. So, obviously, this has kind of been anticipated for a long time. But we kind of have talked about in past episodes, especially, obviously, the fantastic Mr. Fox episode that Wes Anderson has always been a huge fan of Roald Dahl books and stories.

Um, and he talked about in interviews that he, you know, read these, these stories that he, that he made into movies, especially the wonderful story of Henry sugar, I think is one that really stood out to him. Um, you know, he read these as a kid. And, um, he kind of talked about how Roald Dahl, he felt like always had the ability to write stories that have like ideas that kind of stick in your mind. Um, and I think that's true. I think.

to like on adding on to that. Roald Dahl, the few stories I've read at least, they like, they don't just have ideas that stick in your head but they have like visuals that stick in your head. They do, yeah. He's a very vivid writer. Yes, like even in his descriptions of characters, you know, he's very like detailed and...

kind of explaining what they look like and their mannerisms even. Um, and so you can really like picture the things he's talking about in your head. So yeah, it's like these ideas and visuals stick in your head. So I can see how, like if you grew up reading doll and then you become a filmmaker, you have these like visuals. Just kind of burned in your brain. Yeah. When you're a child. Yeah. And you're like, man, I've got to get this on screen. These visuals that are like burned in my brain is a good.

Good way to put it. But this one in particular, Wes actually had the rights to the wonderful story of Henry Sugar for like 10 years. So when he made Fantastic Mr. Fox, he went to their house and saw Doll's hut riding HUD and met with his wife. Is it Lissy? Is that how you say her? I think so. Nickname? It's like L-I-C-C-Y. I think it's, I would say Lissy, but it's

Eli Price (07:11.362)
I'm not exactly sure I don't think they're Italian I don't think it's litchi. No Yeah, so but yeah, he met her and kind of they kind of like hit it off I think is kind of how it seems right? I think that he kind of became friends with the grandson too Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't know that but yeah, so he when Fantastic, mr. Fox came out. She loved it

Obviously. Um, and, um, she had asked him like, Hey, are there any other ones that you really want to, that you really like or want to make? And back then he had mentioned the wonderful story of Henry sugar to her. And so she set it aside for him. So like, I want to say I read that, like other people have tried to like get that, but the West had owned the rights. She had like set it aside specifically for him for all that time, which is really cool. Um,

But yeah, in an interview he was asked, you know, why did it take you so long to make this? And he said, this is a quote, he said, I never knew how to do it. I just didn't see a way for me to do it. That isn't in his personal voice. The way he tells the story is part of what I like about it. And so he, you know, he went on to kind of say, like, he was just struggling with like, how do I make this? It's so much.

And his, like his voice is so vital to like the story and the way it sounds and feels. And so he just finally decided, well, I guess we'll just make the movie in his voice. Literally like basically reading the doll story word for word. Um, for a lot of, I mean, really like it pretty much is the doll story. Right. Um, you know, the, the.

Each one is kind of like different amounts of exactly the story, but they're all pretty close. They are all pretty close. We, I know me and Chase both read all four short stories in preparation for this, which I enjoyed. I enjoyed reading those. I did too. Yeah. They were all, you know, obviously well written and engaging and yeah. Yeah. And it really...

Eli Price (09:37.842)
It really is remarkable how, I don't know, how much the experience of the movies is like the like reading the books in a way. Oh yeah, for sure. It's and we'll get we'll get more into that later. I don't want to spoil anything. But yeah, he so I just I just love that he was like, well, since I can't think of a good way to make this, let's just make it in Doll's voice and have the

actors read the story. And so he got to thinking, like they were making Henry Sugar, or he was planning it and stuff, kind of like pre-production, I guess. And it got to a point where he was like, this is not going to be long. I can't make it any longer than it is. Because I think, I assume the original plan was to make it a feature. And.

He just couldn't make it work as a feature. So he's like, well, it is what it is, you know, I'm going to make it. And it's going to be, this is going to be, I think it ends up being like 37 minutes or something like that. That sounds right. And, uh, but he wanted to do something that I guess maybe added up to a feature. And so he was like, well, let's make a few more shorter ones. And so he started like kind of searching through and trying to figure out, okay, which of these.

which of like doll stories kind of work in this kind of like format. And he came down to those other three, um, you know, swan, rat catcher and poison. Um, and yeah, they, I mean, you watch them and you're like, yeah, these all work in this sort of voice and format. Um, and so he had mentioned another one too, that was like a companion of the rat catcher. I think it was called the hitchhiker, which I haven't read. I,

I know the one you're talking about. I think it's, I actually, when I found out about it earlier today and like it just immediately went and listened to it. It's um. Oh, so you did listen to it? I did. Nice. Uh, Rummins. Rummins, okay. Yeah. Um, it's uh, he, he said he liked it too, but it kind of felt too familiar, I guess, is the way he put it.

Eli Price (12:00.534)
normal story. Yeah. I will say, than the other. OK. Not that it's, not that it doesn't have like, any like, weird qualities to it. But it's a very, it's a bit more tropey, I suppose. I gotcha. Yeah. OK. Yeah, so that kind of adds up. That matches up to what he said. Then that makes sense, like it was too familiar. But yeah, so yeah, that's kind of like the, I guess, background history of how this got.

all got started. I do know too, like he, he's, someone said somewhere in something I was reading that he drew like cartoons, like cartoonized versions of these, which, which is pretty common for West films. He's storyboards, right? Everything. So I can't, I can imagine it's, that's probably what they meant by that was like, he story detail storyboarded out like everything, which you would kind of have to for

Especially for these. Yeah. But yeah, I did write down some of his crew names that if you listen to the Wes Anderson series, you might recognize, one being Bob Yeoman, who's the cinematographer for actually not all four of them, because I was looking earlier today. Roman Coppola, who has done a lot of co-writing with Wes. Right.

He direct he did the cinematography for the swan. I think Yeah For the swan which I was like, oh, that's surprising out Maybe yeoman was there, but he just didn't get the credit for it. Yeah, I thought that was like Odd but I was like, oh cool. I guess Coppola's like John China's hand at being a DP. So Yeah, that was cool. So yeoman obviously

been working with Wes for forever. Right. And Wes wrote all of them. He has the writing credit. So really, I would say probably the writing is mostly just like trimming the fat of the text itself. And then he probably did some adjustments of the language. And then every once in a while, there's something different or added in. Yeah.

Eli Price (14:30.418)
Um, the most, never much. No, the most notable one. It's not like much content wise, but like, I think the, the way he ends poison is like a significant addition, which we'll talk about that when we talk about poison, but, um, a very like taking the idea and then like, kind of like.

Eli Price (14:55.614)
making it more full, I guess. The idea that it seems like the story's trying to get to. So I did appreciate that. And it still felt like it was Doll's voice too. Like it didn't feel like- Yeah, it doesn't clash with anything. Yeah. In the original ending. Yeah, so yeah, Wes with the writing credit and obviously directed them. Adam Stockhausen was the production designer for these and he's done.

Other West stuff, um, Grand Budapest. Uh, I want to say French dispatch, but I'm not sure. I know for sure he did. Grand Budapest and Moonrise kingdom. Um, so yeah. And then, um, he had two, there were two editors, Andrew Weisblum and Barney Pilling, and they've done kind of a similar thing. They all have like, uh, Yale men is just like Wes's guy. He's he.

He's the DP for all of Wes's stuff since I want to say Rushmore. Oh wow. Um, and, uh, which was his second film. So pretty much since the beginning and then, um, yeah, the, the other guys are kind of like, maybe like four to five or six West movies a piece. So they all like have familiarity there. I didn't look up who did the, um,

who did the music for these, which I should have. I just didn't think about it. And I'm scrolling live on air, and I'm not seeing who the composer was, which is strange. I see sound, but not the composer. If you're looking at Henry Sugar specifically, from what I understand, I don't think there actually is music in Henry Sugar. Oh, maybe that's fine. If I'm correct.

You might be. I didn't put that together watching it. And I've seen it once. And it must be that way with all of them, because there's not anyone noted as the composer for any of them that I'm seeing, which is interesting. But now that I think about it, I guess there's not really music in them.

Eli Price (17:19.146)
I'm just now realizing that it's all just like it's all just like sound, sound design, and then like narrating these stories. Wow. That's, that's a, a live discovery that I'm making right now with, with everyone. But yeah, that's pretty cool. That's, and that's unusual for Wes because most of his films have a very distinct

like scores. That is true. Yeah. And so yeah, that's kind of his returning crew. What were you gonna say? Oh, I was just gonna say that does kind of even more add to the just making a book visualness of these. Yeah, these stories. Yeah, the way he's presenting. I don't know. Yeah, for sure. And yeah, there's a lot of well.

We'll definitely be talking more about that. Yeah, production of this, Wes said it took about two to two and a half weeks of production to get these done. They did it at, they did all four of them at Maidstone Studios in England. Gotcha. I think it's like, I don't know how far from London, but it's like kind of southeast of London, I think, is what I saw.

Shot it in 16 millimeter, all of them film, obviously. He loves to shoot and film. He does. And I did read that he said he wanted it to have the feel of a kind of a made for TV, British 1980s movie or TV, which I was like, oh, okay, I guess.

I've never watched any 1980s British TV, so I have no reference point. Now that you're saying that, I've seen, I guess my main context is just like some old Doctor Who, but they're very, they have a very set-like quality to them. Sure, yeah, yeah. They feel very built, if that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. And Doctor Who kind of, I've never really watched any of the old Doctor Who, but I've watched the most recent iterations.

Eli Price (19:38.078)
And they still kind of have that feel. They do. Um, it's very, uh, it's very obvious that like there's a, there's a, you're watching actors on a set, uh, which is, I would say that West said that for this, but that's pretty much all of West's stuff. True. Um, yeah, he, he described it as a little theatrical presentation that they found a way to film and then he described the cast as a theater company, which kind of.

It seems like, oh yeah, that's unique to this, but really like, especially like the cast as a theater company, I've heard him like talk about that before because he always like is very intentional about working with a cast and like them all working together and like living together and eating together and all that sort of stuff. And even though like.

This is several new people. Like there's only a couple of returning members of the troupe, I suppose, but he also does kind of have that tendency of pulling a lot of the same people over and that you would see with a theater company. Yeah. And you see that in the crew already mentioned the crew. And we'll get to the cast in a bit. But there are some new guys with the cast, but also some returning ones. And so that's kind of yeah, that's.

It brings some familiarity for sure to the set. But yeah, so I would say he's always thought of his films like that. But this definitely is explicitly like visually like at the like a theater production, people playing multiple roles. And yeah. And then just like the set design and all that is the use of props and the non use of the non use of props. Yeah.

I wrote down this quote because I thought it was good. Wes Anderson, yeah, this is Wes speaking. He says, when you watch a movie, generally, you're seeing someone try to create an illusion of something happening because, in fact, right off the frame is a light and a guy with a microphone. But for me, the theatrical devices really happen. So I think, to some degree, I like the authenticity that a theatrical approach can bring. It's a way to tell the story where there's a little sliver of the documentary in it.

Eli Price (22:02.846)
Even though most of what we're doing is the exact opposite of a documentary, uh, which I appreciate. Um, it made me think of, uh, Warner Hot Warner Herzog, um, as a filmmaker. He's done both. He's done narrative and, um, and documentary work. Um, I want to say probably his most notable narrative is a gear, a wrath of God, probably.

which is an older one, but probably like his most critically acclaimed, I would say narrative feature. I could be wrong, but I think so. And then probably one that a lot of people would recognize is Grizzly Man, which is a relatively more recent documentary about the grizzly man. But Werner Herzog had this idea that he called the ecstatic truth. And so it's kind of this idea that.

The way he kind of describes it is that there's only like a very shallow truth in the quote-unquote facts. And so like even when he makes documentary, like when he makes Grizzly Man or his other documentaries, he's less worried about like when he makes his finished product, he's less worried about portraying like quote-unquote facts and trying because he says that's only a shallow truth that you're going to find there.

And so he's more interested in digging deeper into like stuff deeper than the facts behind the facts. And so like, it gets to, it, it's kind of like, um, I haven't worked, watched much, much hurts dog, but it makes me think of I watched a score says he's rolling thunder review, which is a Bob Dylan kind of concert documentary, uh, following his rolling thunder review tour. And, um, there's all these talking kids.

both archive footage from that tour and also people in the present day talking about it. And there's conflicting stuff being said. And it's all like, when you finish the movie, you're like, I don't know who's telling the truth and who's not about Bob Dylan or about this tour. Or I'm not sure if I can trust anything Bob Dylan said.

Eli Price (24:29.406)
Like, and it's because like, it's not so much interested in like portraying a fact of this concert tour that Bob Dylan went on, but more interested in the deeper truth, which is that like, Bob Dylan is very interested in like mythology and like legend and story. And so like, he kind of builds his persona in that way. And so Scorsese, when he approached the movie, he's like,

Approaching it less of like let me portray the facts and more of like let me kind of portray this in the in the kind of Rhythm or the I guess like atmosphere of a Bob Dylan mindset And that that's kind of like I always think that's interesting. It's that ecstatic truth It's the deeper truth behind the facts that maybe like you wouldn't call a fact

but like is getting to something more true still. Right. And I think that's kind of like, I guess the mindset Wes is in when he's talking about, these are kind of like documentary, but kind of the opposite of documentary. Like they're portrayed, like we're portraying these books, but we're like trying to get, I guess, visually to something behind just like.

Just like reading the book out loud and filming someone reading the book out loud. I guess that's kind of I guess that's kind of what I'm picking up on from that quote. Yeah, as far as like making the movie itself, Wes said in order to support the storytelling, we wanted to make a kind of blocking and staging that could happen live. And like when you watch the movie, like it is happening right there in front of you.

The production design is like ever changing and moving and shifting and props are being handed in to the actors. Walls are being taken out. Yeah. And like, honestly, it's one of the most inventive things I've ever seen on screen. Like, I don't know about you, but I've never seen anything. I haven't either. Like this. No. Like what Wes is doing in these four shorts.

Eli Price (26:51.382)
The set is moving around. It looks awesome. They're intricately painted or structured. He's doing all kinds of different camera techniques. They're projecting behind Benedict Cumberbatch, moving through a city, and he's walking in place in front of the back projection. They light stuff in interesting ways. They

I don't know, it's just... The only point of comparison I can even think of is French Dispatch, which is just Wes Anderson. Which is Wes Anderson. It's like he took a little bit of stuff they did in French Dispatch and just like to the nth degree. And it's almost like this put in companion with Asteroid City coming out in the same year is almost like... Which, before I say this, Wes... I was reading in an interview actually earlier today.

what the interviewer asked him about the TikTok trend and stuff. And Wes was like, I don't really watch. I haven't seen any of those. He was like, he mentioned the only one he had seen is the Ritz Hotel did one. And so he saw that. And he was like, oh, the Ritz kind of, they owe me a few stays. But it's almost like he's kind of

pushing, he hasn't watched them and he's like, he's not like against them necessarily, but it's almost like, okay, y'all want to act like you can do like what I do, but here's like actually what I do. And it's incredible. Yes. And yeah, you're maybe your TikToks are fun. But what I'm doing is like, incredible filmmaking and art and amazing. But yeah, I mean, it feels like

It feels like you're watching a pop-up book in a sense. That's, yeah, I like that. Yeah, because it's like even, there's even some of the sequences where literally a set piece will literally pop up. Yeah. Yeah, fold out behind the actors or the opposite. And it's just... There are little, I'm thinking of a part in Henry Sugar, but there's...

Eli Price (29:14.742)
you know, little like things that rotate within the scene that change your perspective and yeah. Yeah, and it's, you know, I was thinking about this because if you describe these to someone, you're like, the way you would describe it is maybe like, oh, well, it's the Roald Dahl short stories and then there's someone like an actor on screen like narrating it to you and then like kind of they're acting it out and you know, the sets change and stuff like that.

And I guess like it's hard to describe it in a way that doesn't seem like, oh, so they're just like, acting out the book for you. Like, why do I need to watch them act out the book? But it's, and even like, if you describe it, it's hard not to describe it as like, kind of like a stage production kind of thing. Because it very much has that feel. But

it's very much like a cinematic language. It's very like, it's doing things that can only be captured on camera, like that you couldn't do with a stage production. And it's almost like, you know, if you think about some of the best like Broadway to movie, I guess adaptations are like when the director really finds a way to make it.

where you're like, oh, there's a reason to see this also on screen because of what they're doing with the camera and not just watching the camera kind of just film the musical on a set. Sure. So I think West Side Story, like Spielberg's West Side Story is very much that. I think he really had an eye for, okay, how can I make this like...

like take the stage production and make it where it's like, okay, there's something new being done because of the way I'm using the camera to film these sequences or whatever. Right. Or like the sound of music. I mean, I've never seen like a good production of it, but I've seen like a really good student production of like the play and there is something.

Eli Price (31:35.21)
There's something of the shot of the Alps with her singing in the film that you just can't capture on a stage, no matter how good the production quality is going to be. That's not going to be the same. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, this is like a, I would say, the way that the scenes are blocked and the way the camera moves is just such a starkly cinematic experience. Yeah.

It is like very much a stage production feel because of the sets, the set design and like, and all like the act, like you said, the actors are playing like maybe multiple roles, even within one story, but it's a such a, like you have to watch it on the screen. Like it's, it's very much a, a film experience. And Adam, you know, I found this really cool.

article where Adam Stockhausen, the production designer, and even Bob Yeoman kind of did interviewed. And so they pulled some quotes from them. And Stockhausen was kind of saying how he and Bob Yeoman and Wes kind of have this shorthand of communication because of working together in the past that really helped in making this, which I'm sure was just like in a very hard feat.

to get made. Sure. But they did, he said they did a lot of modeling with digital recreations and even cardboard recreations before they went in. And then they also would set up cameras either anywhere from days to weeks in advance of shooting so that they can make sure everything was just right. Which I hope if you're listening you've watched this, but if you haven't.

you know, when you see this, you're like, how much planning and rehearsal went into place like, because everything has to move just right for it to, like, not be a disaster on screen. Yeah. I remember hearing in an interview, them talking about like the cameraman practicing, you know, like for days before they even like actually brought people in to, to like block out the shots. Yeah. And

Eli Price (33:55.814)
Yeah, it's incredible. There's a ton of moving parts. And I'm sure there's a lot of crew that's not necessarily credited on IMDB. Shout out to those guys. For sure. There's so many moving parts. I read that Yeoman actually had to order special Dolly tracks to help facilitate the tear away.

Quality which I like that phrasing to there is like a tear away quality to the set design Because he said this there they had to like these special die tracks helped Because they had to like make holes at the bottom so that the camera could remain in place because there's like stuff being torn away and like I guess like moving around and so they had there's like

some sort of special Dolly track he had to order so that the camera could not get torn away with everything else, I guess. I guess that makes sense. Yeah. So I don't know if that's something that was already like, if they had to get that specially made or if like, I didn't really gather that from what I read. But yeah, maybe it was something that was already out there that they just had to order. Or maybe they.

When you say like I had to order this, it could mean that, or it could mean I had to like get someone to make this for me, right? Because it's not a thing. Which that might be the case, because like we said, I've never seen another movie like this. So who would need a Dolly track like that before you're making a movie where you have to have it? It reminds me of like a lot of the innovation that like Van Hoytimo did with

Christopher Nolan working with IMAX cameras. They had stuff made because it didn't exist. Yeah. And they needed it. Like the plain wing mounts and stuff. Yeah. And even just as simple as the harness to handheld carry the IMAX camera. But yeah, so that's really cool, I think. And then Yeomann also mentioned just a ton of light changes, lighting changes.

Eli Price (36:18.118)
This is a quote from Yehman. He said, when in Henry Sugar, when Benedict Cumberbatch goes from the exterior of the casino to the lobby, to the interior of the gambling room, three distinct looks were needed, and there was a lot of dimming of lights, etc. in the course of our camera moves. And so I can only imagine like, you know, I don't know who's directing like the light changes, if Wes is doing it, or he maybe has an assistant director.

doing it, but it's just like, all right, change the light setting three, change the light setting two, because like it all is happening in one take. Right. That movement. And so, yeah, just, I don't know, there's just so many moving parts. Stockhausen mentioned that the jungle was in, Henry Sugar was probably one of the most intricate sets just because of like the mixture of like textures and color and.

Just like making sure it was painted just so yeah So that like when it moves in or moves out or zooms in like everything like matches up just right Like I just can't even imagine me Getting that done Yeah, it's there's so much going on in these movies there's tons of camera techniques

I wrote, I wrote like just a list of things I could think of off the top of my head. So there's like the aperture, like transitions, like where they close the aperture. Um, there's these like, of course, Wes Anderson, whip pans and like quick cuts. And there's back, we talked about the back projection behind Humberbatch. Yeah. Well, he's like walking in place with the back projection, showing him walking down the street. Um, there's a ton of dolly work.

Of course, Wes Anderson loves to do that dolly work on tracks. Um, some of those hospital dolly shots and Henry Sugar. Incredible. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I saw some behind the scenes stuff of them doing it. Um, and yeah, they're just there. It's not even like they're not on tracks at that point because you couldn't make tracks because you're following an actor. So you would see them in the shot. Yeah. You would see the tracks up ahead and, and Wes doesn't really do.

Eli Price (38:42.498)
That's not it's not something that's gonna want to clean that up. Yeah. He's yeah, he's not gonna do post work on that He's just like no, we'll do we'll do the work to make it happen in pre Production so we don't have to do it in post But yeah, so lots of dollar work that yeah, you can probably look up just like making of Henry sugar and Probably see some of that behind-the-scenes stuff on YouTube. That's where I saw it. He does a split screen

even. I think that's in Poison. He does this split screen. I think that's the only one where he does it. And I can't even remember when the first time he did this split screen was. I know it's in Asteroid City. I want to say there's a scene maybe in French Dispatch where he does split screen. Are there no split screens during the phone tree in Grand Budapest?

It seems like there might be. There might. Yeah. Yeah, there might be. And now that you're saying that, there might even be split screen in either Life Aquatic or even Royal Tenenbaums when people are on the phone. But I can't remember off the top of my head. It's been a while since I watched those episodes now. But yeah, definitely something he started doing more recently is the split screen.

The other thing I really like is the highlighting of the eyes Which he does he does it in Henry Sugar when the police officer confronts him it like highlights his eyes and it kind of like It kind of like accentuates the shame. He's feeling In the eyes and then the other one I could think of I can't remember if it happens more than these two But it highlights

Peter's eyes in the swan when the train is about to when the train is coming And so I thought those were really cool. Those were those felt like new those didn't feel like kind of West's Distinctive kind of thing that kind of felt a little bit new Yeah, and then of course a ton of miniature work and a little bit of stop-motion even Yeah

Eli Price (41:07.03)
But yeah, they had different scales for different looks and scenes and whatever. I think Stockhausen said that there's multiple different sizes of the tree in this one, just because you see it from several different perspectives. And so there were like, and then there's the way they use miniatures, sometimes there's even a miniature.

either in front of or behind the actual actors on the set and like the perspective, you know, makes it fit. But yeah, there's just so like they do so much miniature work like there's the tunnel for Henry Sugar's car. There's the shoes when they're you're looking down the railroad tracks and seeing the shoes. That's actually like miniature. Oh, really? Uh huh. I didn't even I hadn't realized that. Yeah.

the circus train obviously behind in my con when he's telling his story. Right. And then the back projection. So there's like, it's basically like, there's a projector set up behind Benedict Cumberbatch as Henry Sugar when he's coming out of the casino. And there's, they project, do back projection of like, basically like a camera moving through, like down the sidewalk of a

of a city and they, you know, they built that city miniature to film the camp, like to do the film of the camera moving through it and then back projected that behind Ben and Ed Cumberbatch. And so like, I saw like a little video of them like making it and there's just like these like artists like painting intricately, like the bricks of these buildings and stuff. That's really cool. Yeah.

just meticulous and really cool. Yeah, and there's other. There's definitely more miniature work, but those are the ones that stood out or were interesting or that I saw in a YouTube clip. Yeah, it's, I don't know, the production of this is just incredible. And we'll get into, I guess, probably more detail. In a minute, we'll probably start talking through each of the shorts.

Eli Price (43:34.046)
in turn. Yeah, was there anything that really stood out to you as far as the production? I think it was pretty well covered. Yeah. I can't think of anything else. Yeah. We did mention the cast, but I wanted to talk about the cast before we get into each individual film. So Wes did say like,

the people he cast were people that he found interesting to watch, which I was like, I don't know, that seems kind of just like a vague answer. Like, would you cast people that you didn't think were interesting to watch in any movie? I would hope not. Unless you've got a very specific role in mind. Yeah, someone that you don't want people to be interested in watching for that role. I don't know. But yes.

I was like, well, I'll put that in the notes, but that doesn't sound very like enlightening to me About how he cast this film but yeah, this is I want to say this is Benedict Cumberbatch Dev Patel and Richard How do you say his last name? Hey yo, hey, yo, hey day. I you wait a something like that Ayo ADE for the listeners

I've heard it said, but now that you're asking me, I can't. I don't know what it is. That's what I want to say, a Yeo Dei or something. Anyway, maybe Chase will find it while I'm talking. Yeah, we also have returning cast members in Rafe Fiennes and being Kingsley and Rupert. Rupert Fran, this is just his second. He was in Asteroid City, and now he's back again for this one.

At least I think. Was he in French Dispatch, Rupert Friend? I think he was. He didn't have a very big role. But I believe he was. Yeah, let me pull up his thing and see. Yeah, he was in French Dispatch. I was right. So yeah, he's just a recent addition to the West team. But nonetheless a returning guy.

Eli Price (45:57.154)
But yeah, there are three, let's see, one, two, three new guys and then three returning, which is pretty cool. I did also write Asa Jennings, who was the kid that followed Rupert Friend around in the swan and kind of acted stuff out, because I think he did it. I want to give him a shout out. There's other kind of side people, obviously, in the other shorts, but he was the only one that wasn't like.

major actor that also I feel like had a very like important role and think he did a really good job so and he was only I say he was an only in this one I didn't actually look to see if he was any in any of the other ones but that's the only one I noticed him in BSO cummerbatch so the only the only one that's in all four is Ray Fines because Ray Fines plays

Roald Dahl, right? Also, and so, you know, if you've seen it, you know, if you haven't seen it, you'll find out but all of them At some point some of them start off with showing girl doll in his kind of writing cut Some of them just cut to him at some point And he's he kind of like is doing some narration of the stories himself What I say himself?

Ray Fiennes as Roald Dahl is doing narration of Roald Dahl's stories, dressed as Roald Dahl in a kind of like makeshift Roald Dahl writing cut kind of set, which is made really cool. I think I read Stockhausen say like there's even like items from Dahl's actual writing cut in there. That makes sense. And yeah, there's even in, if you watch Fantastic Mr. Fox, there's some like

kind of Roald Dahl writing cut Easter eggs in there that are like not necessarily like from that but like models of it. Like I think the coffee cup Mr. Fox is drinking out of at the dinner table at the beginning is like the coffee cup that was in Roald Dahl's writing cut, which is cool. Yeah. But yeah, so I thought that was cool. So Ray Fines is the only one in it.

Eli Price (48:24.158)
I'm pretty sure in the past I've thought Ray, it was like Ray as a nickname of Ralph, but it's actually Rafe. And so I think even like maybe on the Grand Budapest episode, I like just was saying it wrong the whole time, if I'm recalling right. And like, I think more recently I was hearing someone say, and I was like,

I've been saying his name wrong. I assumed people were just saying Ray for short of Ralph or something. But it's not. It's spelled Ralph, but it's pronounced Rafe. Yeah. I sympathize. Yeah. So I was like, when I realized that, I was like, oh, people are going to think I'm so, like, such an idiot. But yeah. So Ray finds this in all of them. He.

plays other roles in two of them, but plays role doll in all of them. So starting with Henry Sugar, you have Benedict Cumberbatch playing Henry Sugar, and also Max Engelman, which now that I'm saying that, I wrote it down, but trying to remember who that was. That is the makeup artist character that they largely write out. Yeah.

the movie but they kind of introduce at the very end. That's right. When Roald Dahl is like meeting the, you know, the partners of Henry Sugar to get permission to write the story, which is part of the framing narrative of the book itself. Right, right. Another layer, which we'll get into. But yeah, so yeah, he plays Henry Sugar and Max Engelman. I mean, that's just for like a second. Yeah.

and And then Ray finds is obviously rolled all and he plays the policeman. Yep that confronts Henry sugar towards the end You have death per tell playing Dr. ZZ Chatterjee And John Winston to a dual role there Ben Kingsley is there playing m.con and the croupier and Then you have Richard a O at a

Eli Price (50:47.082)
playing Dr. Marshall, who's the other doctor with Chatterjee, and he also plays the great Yogi Yes that you see That that Khan is trying to find The only one not in Henry Sugar is Rupert friend. He's he's not in that one, but all the other guys are And you know, it's the it's the longer of the four and the bigger production so there's more care like

prominent characters needed. So that makes sense. I want to say, like, I want to say that this is just kind of the way it worked out, but it seems like Benedict Cumberbatch is in 2 and Rupert Frant is in 2. Yeah, yeah. I think all of them are in only in 2, except for Wraith Fines. If I'm thinking correctly. Yeah. Oh, okay.

So all of them are in two, except Ray finds who is only in all of them, because again, he plays Rolled-Doll. Right. Yeah, and then like I said, Ray finds in the swan is just Rolled-Doll, which it cuts to, I think it cuts, does it start with him? Does it start with Doll? Do all of them start with Doll? Not all of them start with Doll. That's what I thought. The swan goes straight into it. That's what I thought.

But it cuts to Dahl towards the end. Yes. Towards the very end. It seems like the Ratcatcher might do the same. I don't think the Ratcatcher starts with Dahl. Yeah, I don't think so either. Poison, I think, does. No, Poison jumps right in too. Yeah, so Henry Sugar's the only one that starts with Dahl. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, so yeah, the Swan, Bennett Cumberbatch not in there. Ray finds his Dahl.

And then you have Rupert friend Rupert friend is really like the only like main guy in that doll Obviously it cuts to at the end right Ray finds his doll but um It's that this one is pretty much all Rupert friends. Yeah along with the kid That's kind of acting out some of the stuff and the occasional person handing in items Yes, or like moving a piece of the set right for them or making the sound of a gun

Eli Price (53:13.55)
Yes. Yeah. But you never see any other faces. Right. Yeah, you don't see any of the other characters. It's just Rupert Friend, who is the narrator, and that you find out is like, this is something different than the book. You find out that the narrator is an older Peter Watson. And then Asa Jennings, who I mentioned, plays the young Peter Watson.

And so it's cool because they, at some point in the middle, you find out that the narrator played by a friend is the older version of Peter Watson kind of reminiscing on this tale and they start like him and the kid start switching off, like acting out the story, which is kind of, I think is pretty cool.

And even, I guess, kind of profound in a sense, in a way. It is. Yeah. It definitely, it's definitely a visual choice that adds a lot to the story itself, I think. Adds another layer of depth to what Dahl did with it. But yeah, I think Fram is just great. He does like,

different voices and stuff. We'll talk about it. But yeah, the next one, and these, I'm doing it in these order, this order, because they actually did come out day after day. So Henry Sugar came out one day. And then for the next, for a sequence of four days, only one came out a day. So there is technically a release order for them. They don't all drop out once.

Even though they're just a day apart. Which I appreciate from Netflix of all people. I do. Because I was able to like, it was like kind of a thing. I was like, okay, we watched Henry Sugar the day it released. And then me and my wife, we watched that. And then each day we watched the new one that came out. So that was kind of fun. But yeah, then the next one was The Rat Catcher. And that had Ray Fine's...

Eli Price (55:38.902)
is rolled on that, but he's also the rat man, right? The rat man himself. Um, and then you have Richard Ayoade playing the, the kind of newspaper editor. Um, and then Rupert friend is in that one too, playing. I didn't even know the, the character's name, but apparently it's Claude Cubbage, um, who's I guess, is he like the mechanic in the mechanic shop? I think next to the newspaper. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I didn't even know his name.

His name is Claude Cubbage. I don't even remember that from the story, but it must be in the short story. I think so. Yeah. I didn't even remember that. They certainly say it a couple of times in the one I listened to today. Gotcha. Yeah. So that one has three guys in it.

And I would say, yeah, we'll go ahead and name the last short, who's in those, and then we'll jump into them. Because I don't want to get too much into what the actors do. We'll do that one by one. But yeah, the last one was Poison, in which Dev Patel is back and he's playing Supervisor Woods. This is kind of setting.

Timber Woods is a really fun name. I appreciate that. Yeah, is that his name? OK. In the IMDb and letterbox, it just says Supervisor Woods. I didn't even realize his name was Timber Woods. I read these stories, but I guess I didn't focus in on the names of the people, obviously. And then Cumberbatch is back to playing Harry Pope.

which is kind of a funny name. Obviously Ray Fiennes playing Doll, and Ben Kingsley is back too for this one playing Dr. Gander by Ben Kingsley. I don't know why, but people love casting Ben Kingsley as people of other ethnicities. Well, for both of these, it actually works out. He's, I forget, I'm...

Eli Price (58:04.526)
spacing on my pronunciation.

Eli Price (58:12.726)
Anyhow, but he's an Indian of Indian descent. Gotcha, yeah. His father was. Well, then good. He finally is cast. He rolled. He is. That ethnicity. But when he's cast as all the other ethnicities, that's hard to trust when he's cast. I don't blame you. Yeah. But yeah, well, I guess we'll do it.

We'll jump in and kind of talk through these movies one by one. So first, obviously, is Henry Sugar, the wonderful story of Henry Sugar, to be more specific. Yes. And I don't know if you can see, probably not. It's just probably looks like books in the video. But like I did put the book, I got the book right there.

It's it's actually the wonderful story of Henry Sugar and six more so there's seven I guess total short stories in the book And the only other one from this collection this collection of short films is the swan The swan is in that collection the other two are from a different collection, I guess But but yeah the wonderful story of Henry Sugar it's

the I guess like I think I called it earlier like the flagship short of this collection. That's fair. Yeah, it certainly seems like it's the one he had the most like drive for making. Yes. Yeah, obviously like he had the rights for that for 10 years and then these other ones like I said he kind of like was like well let me find some others that I can make in this way in this format and so yeah.

Henry, uh, Henry sugar is yet another in the same year, very multi-layered story. Asteroid city was, um, a TV documentary about a play, right? Writing a play that is acted out by a cast by a cast and crew that is.

Eli Price (01:00:29.23)
Portrayed cinematically the play itself Yeah, it's a lot it's a lot of layers and this is like a Very multi layered story in and of us like it's just written that way, right? And even like you like you mentioned earlier like part of the framing is doll himself like getting this story from the costume guy right

Which is obviously all fictional but the way he tells the story as if it's he's pretending it's a true story Yeah, he's he pretends it and even like at the end like that or I guess I would say maybe three quarters of the way Through he kind of stops and says, you know if this were just a story, you know, it would go this way But this is a real story. This is a true story. So this is what I have to tell you what actually happened I can't just give you a satisfying, you know, the normal satisfying end, right?

Um, which is really fun. Um, and I wrote down this quote from Red West, uh, which is both. Funny and insightful, uh, but he said, quote, I like stories that are stories within stories and plays within stories and movies within plays within stories. But I think this story, Henry sugar may have been the first thing I ever read. That made me kind of intrigued by that concept. And so finally we're.

We're getting this comes out in West interviews and we're finally getting to the roots of like why he's so obsessed with making multi-layered stories. Um, and it makes sense. Like you read this as a kid and you, I guess, like he kind of became enamored with that idea of that kind of multi-layered story concept. Um, and it starts coming out in his filmmaking, um, in his writing. But yeah, like we said,

This stays pretty much straight on. All of them pretty much stay straight on with the story itself. They do. There's like, this one of all of them, I would say probably has the most quote unquote missing, just because it's a bigger story. Even it's much longer than all the other ones too. And so for the short, for Wes's short, he really kind of...

Eli Price (01:02:55.214)
I think I kind of said it earlier, he kind of trims the fat. There's a few instances like, so like when he's first starting with his gambling trick, I think in this short story, he kind of does a few attempts and Wes is just like, does one attempt and then gets down to the business, which makes sense for this format. But

But yeah, I think he kind of just like trims the stuff that like doesn't necessarily add that you couldn't get from what's already there. Right. Which I appreciate. It's kind of like tight, a little bit tighter storytelling. But yeah, it's, we talked about how it is set up with Dahl preparing his workstation there in his hut.

for writing and I really feel like this whole endeavor feels this way but especially the way all of it's the whole thing starts with releasing Henry Sugar and this is the very first thing you see is Ray Fines as Roald Dahl setting up his writing station and I even read that Wes was in an interview was talking about how

He heard Ray Fiennes in costume over on set as Doll kind of talking something to himself. And Wes was like, hey, what are you saying? And Ray Fiennes was like, oh, well, I watched a lot of the footage of Doll that you sent. And he had this ritual that he would do for before he writes and stuff like that. And so I kind of like him doing that.

And Wes was like, oh, well, just like do it louder and we'll film. And so that, that kind of, that whole thing was like, not necessarily like in the script or planned. Ray Fines had just like, was so like, you know, trying to be true to roll doll and Wes was like, oh, we'll just film that. That's really cool. Yeah. And put it in the movie. Um, and so yeah, it, and because of that, it really feels like an ode to the written word and it's in, in both the sense of like.

Eli Price (01:05:20.226)
just portraying Doll in that way, starting the whole thing off with him preparing to write, the kind of like ritual it takes to get in the mindset to write, and then just like with sticking to Doll's actual words for the most part. And like just like literally like reading his book on screen, which I think is really cool.

Uh, the, yeah. And on that note, the dialogue itself, because it's mostly like the narration of the actual story as it's written, it feels like the way it's delivered, it feels like you're reading the story to your children. Right. There's a lot of, uh,

He saids and I said and yeah, he includes like he doesn't take out that stuff in the in the script No, you're hardly ever like seeing an actual conversation play out You're having a narrator who is a character in that conversation Tell you about the conversation as action plays out behind them, right? Right, and then sometimes he'll say like he'll say what someone says and they're just there in the scene they don't necessarily say it but sometimes he says like

And then he said this, and then the character will say it. Like, one of the standout ones was, I want to say it's when they find out that M. Khan has died before he gets to learn more about him being able to see without his eyes. And the death fatale, the Dr. Chatterjee, who's narrating this part, says,

That's that he said, uh, talking about the other doctor and then it kind of pauses for a second and then IOTA as the other doctor says, that's that. And it kind of like, it's like this way of like emphasizing the melancholy, I guess, um, which is really, really insightful to take, like, to have the narrator actually just like reading out. That's that he said.

Eli Price (01:07:42.474)
and then a pause while they're like kind of staring at the screen with kind of this melancholy look on their face. And then the guy actually says, that's that and delivers it. With that melancholy and the like, when the narrator says it, he's just like narrating it. Right. But then the actual character says the line with the emotion in it. And it like emphasizes. And I did find that that.

pause even like really stands out with as dense as the I mean all four of them but particularly Henry Sugar is with dialogue and movement there's really no breathing room except for a few key spots where it's being it's you really notice it you really feel that weight and all of them have those moments which is really cool but yeah that's one of the standout ones and that short for me really cool.

Something true to all of them is Wes shows some things that are being spoken and doesn't show some things that are being spoken. So like the standout one is actually from the Rat Catcher to me when he's showing like the 10 of poison and there's not actually he's not actually like he's talking about the 10 of poison and acting like he's holding the 10 of poison. But there's not anything there or the rat.

Rat in the ferret. Yeah. Was him just like pretending they're running around. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So that I think that's probably the most like those stand out as far as that goes. But it happens a lot in Henry Sugar, too, is there. There's just not in this moment anything like coming to mind of how that plays out. Well, there is like so he rides off on the bicycle.

when he leaves the end icon, when he leaves the hospital, he rides off on the bicycle and then he explains like what he does after he like rides it out of frame, but you don't see it. Yeah. Um, you just kind of have to imagine it. Um, and what it, what that does, uh, for me is it kind of, it feels like, so when you, if you've ever like read a physical role doll book, um, there's.

Eli Price (01:10:02.058)
There's illustration. It's one of the he's the sort of author that has like illustrations in his books. They're like their chapter. These are short stories, obviously, but his chapter books, like their chapter books, but they also have illustrations in them. And so it almost feels like reading one of those books. Like I read Fantastic Mr. Fox to my son last year. And so there's pictures on some pages, but there's not pictures on every page. It's a chapter book. Yeah. And so.

you're having to use your imagination a lot, even though you can visualize things in a way that's being shown to you, but you still have to use your imagination. Right. Yeah, and it's that idea. The rest of it. And that way, it's an ode to writing, again, and especially writing for children that has illustrations, because it's like, oh, on this page, oh, look, this is what's happening. You can see a little drawing of it.

And then you flip the page and more stuff is happening. But you don't have an illustration to look at anymore. So you just have to imagine it. And you see that on screen, live, as it's being narrated, read to you. It's really cool. It is. And yeah, I love that. There's a lot of deadpan. Like a lot of.

Wes Anderson movies have very like deadpan comedy, obviously. But the way it plays in these is kind of unique, I think. Yeah, because it's a narrate. It makes more sense that the delivery is deadpan or a lot of the kind of funny lines, but are the way that things play out because it's a narrator, like it's not a care. It's not an actual character. It's like, or even when it is the character, it's not them.

It doesn't feel like it's them in the moment, telling it to you, because it's the character narrating. Right. Exactly. And so, yeah, it's just like a way of Wes doing sort of what he's always done, but in a different format where it feels fresh and kind of like plays a little differently, but it's still like comic, which I thought was really cool.

Eli Price (01:12:26.014)
I really like the sequence in Henry Sugar where he's doing the costume changes. It's very short, but it's really funny. I don't know, what else in Henry Sugar stood out to you? Like any favorite sequences or set pieces?

Set pieces. I mean, I do love the visual gag when he's talked like when he goes to talk to the yogi and the yogi's meditating and he He starts levitating and they just have like a box that's painted to look like the set Yeah, then he just turns so that you so that now you can't see it It just blends in with the set and he sits on it. Yeah, it looks like he's Floating. Yeah, and then at the end he turns it back. Yeah It's great. And then they do the same thing at the end with Benedict Cumberbatch, right?

Uh huh. Yeah, it's so great. And that's part of that jungle sequence that I mentioned earlier, where like, it's like you're walking through the jungle, through the brush, but the set's kind of like moving out of the way of the camera as it's like going through. And then you have like, the hut and everything like built out. Yeah. But then the background from that is just like a wall painting. Yeah. So great. It's also great.

I've mentioned probably two or three times by now the back projection sequence. I thought that was really funny. It's like it plays comically, but it's also really inventive and cool. And then there's also the, oh man.

The there's the sequence where it's the lawyer guy, I guess, that's sitting there and just bringing in all the cash and stuff. I thought that was really funny, like a funny visual of all the cash sitting there on rolling pallets. Yes. I don't know. There's a lot. There's a lot in Henry Sugar. That's really great. The oh, the.

Eli Price (01:14:41.506)
the way where he's imagining being able to look inside of himself and see if he has an artery or whatever and it brings in the little x-ray thing in front of him is really great. Another one that had jumped out to me when you were talking about them not visualizing what they're telling you and you just having to imagine it is the scene where he's throwing the money and talking to people down below him.

But they never show the crowd forming, gathering money and stuff. He's just like, it's just like a set built to look like the top of an apartment building. He's just throwing money out. Oh yeah. I also, I did really like that they gave Ray Fiennes the role of the policeman because it feels like Roald Dahl coming in to tell you the moral of the story. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's great.

I love that. But yeah, it's a lot. I also really love the ending. I love where he comes to with just like the, I think one of the things that Henry Sugar says is, I don't wanna be the richest man on earth, which he could be. Oh yeah. And then I really love like, there's a line, it's a really simple line, but it says, it just says his work was complete. And I really just love the,

succinctness, I guess of that. Like, it's just that idea of like, living your life and doing something with your life that was meaningful, even if it didn't like change the world. Like, it was meaningful and like made others like, you know, a significant, like, some people's lives better. And...

to say just that line, his work was complete. I thought that's a very moving, just very succinct way to think about a life well lived. It is. So I love the way it ended that. And two, another thing about this story in particular is that a lot of Roald Dahl stories can be pretty.

Eli Price (01:17:02.338)
cruel or harsh. As we as well come to find. Yes, very soon actually. And this one is a very like sentimental story, a very like sweet ending sentimental like, there's not a whole lot of like harshness to it even like throughout the story. Like obviously like Henry Sugar is like kind of a rich jerk.

at first, but he's not like, I think there's even a line in the beginning of the story where it says they're, they weren't, they weren't bad man, but they weren't necessarily good either. Um, him and his friends. Um, and so he's kind of just like this neutral, he's not really a villainous in any way. He's just like, Oh, I can make a lot of money doing this. Um, and then like comes to find he doesn't actually want all that money. Um, and yeah, it,

There's something nice about, like you said, it's kind of odd for a Roald Dahl story how, you know, like, sincere and sentimental this is and all that. It's kind of nice that this is the story that he's insisting is a true one. Like, oh, this is how the world really is. Or like, I guess the subtext there is this is the way the world should be. Yeah. Which I think is really cool to see and to like...

discover while like either reading the story or like watching this short. Um, it's kind of like this, there's a hopeful like lining around it of like, if we can all like come, if we can all come to this realization, like this would be, and maybe there's a sense in which by true it's that, um, it's that ecstatic truth.

that we were talking about that Herzog kind of coined of like, OK, it's not a fact that this is actually a true, like a factual story. But it's true in the sense of this is truly who we should be. Maybe there's a little subtext to that point. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that.

Eli Price (01:19:27.11)
even if it wasn't intentional on the part of Doll or Wes in the way he wrote it, maybe subconsciously, that's the underlying thing happening thematically. Yeah.

Eli Price (01:19:54.65)
Just a minute ago, we were like really, there was like all this headroom. Does the webcam kind of? It might weigh the thing back. Because I don't know that I originally had it that much. So I'll have to look into that. But I'll have to edit this out. It's a good time for some water. Fair enough.

Eli Price (01:20:24.99)
pause and then we'll jump back in with this one.

Eli Price (01:20:41.966)
But yeah, the swan, on the other hand, as opposed to a very sentimental and sweet story, is a very harsh and cruel story. Still kind of got some optimism there in the messaging of putting a brave face on the world. But yeah. Yeah. So I actually like, so I think this is probably,

is my favorite of these four. Which I would agree. Which might be kind of unfair because it's the longer, it's the more like, you can tell there's, it was like the more like prominent thing being made. And these are kind of like just kind of put alongside it these other three. So it might not be fair to like really like compare them in that way. But.

But yeah, Henry Sugar is definitely my favorite. I think the Swan is my second favorite, which is funny because it was my least favorite of the stories to read. Um, I didn't, I honestly like didn't. Enjoy reading this story, not necessarily because it was like badly written just because like the harshness of what's happening in this story with these bullies, like it's was much harder to read.

And imagine then what you actually get on screen, which you don't really see any of that right on screen But when you're reading it when it's when it's being narrated to you on screen And you're seeing like some of the things acted out Like you don't have to do your own imagining of what's happening because you have something to look at But when you're just reading the story and you're imagining yourself these things happening It just like wasn't fun for me

That's fair. Because these two bullies are just like, they're like devilish. Like it's like, I don't know. I don't know. They feel like, what's the movie with Damien, the kid? Oh, the Omen. Is it the Omen? I don't know. Maybe the one where the kid is the devil, basically. Right. I have. I think I've seen parts of it. I haven't seen the whole movie, but.

Eli Price (01:23:04.054)
I was like, man, these kids are, these kids might be the devil. Like. Yes. And you're, you're kind of getting the story from the main bully's perspective, reading the book as well. And that is true. Yeah, I didn't think about that, but that might be part of why too. It starts off with him in his home with his dad, and you kind of like see why he is the way he is. Sure, yeah. I guess based on like how his dad interacts with him.

You don't really get that in this Wes Anderson short. I guess that's like, that's probably like the one thing he cut out was the very beginning of the story. He jumps right into the two boys meeting up and can't even think of their names, Ernie and something. It doesn't matter.

Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, it's been their names are best forgotten because they're awful people. They are terrible at once But yeah, it's it I just thought that was funny like it's Like I really loved the short and I just hated reading the short story It seems like they actually do a bit more even in the in the story though like they shoot a duck and yeah, yeah

Yeah, there's a duck that they shoot before the swan. Mm-hmm. In the short story, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I guess the disheartening thing about this is it's inspired by a newspaper clip that Dahl had. This is actually at the very end of the West Shore. There's like a title card, and it mentions this. That Dahl had the.

Newspaper clip that inspired the story in his idea book for like 30 years or something before he actually like finally wrote this story I would be curious to know what aspects of this were in the clip, right? Yeah Yeah, it's like well, is it just like the case of? Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I wonder what the newspaper article was right you wouldn't inspired it

Eli Price (01:25:19.158)
you would hope it would be him being tied up and used as a hunting dog or even him getting shot out of the tree and not the train. But who knows. Yeah, who knows, really. And I almost wonder if in the real story he's... Maybe the kid dies or something. Because otherwise, well, I guess if a kid's getting swan wings tied to him and like...

shot out of a tree, I guess that's like newspaper worthy. Even if he survives, but yeah. Or tied down to train tracks, even if he survives, that would still be newsworthy. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I don't know, but it's interesting. I do wonder what that newspaper clip was like. But like we talked about earlier, Rupert Friend does most of the work here.

Which is probably also a thing that helps with it being easier Is you're not you're seeing him and you're not you know, picturing a child, right? Yeah, so he has the kid that's playing that's acting out some of the Peter Watson stuff and He's the narrator and I love his narration. It's um My favorite narration is between him and Richard Aote and the rat catcher

I can't, it's hard for me to decide. I think Friend has it by a little bit, maybe. That's fair. Yeah. And he does like the different voices for the different kids, the different bullies, which like when he started doing it, I was like, oh, this is just like when I read stories to my kids. I always like to do voices. It's fun. It is fun. And yeah, he's consistent with it. I love it.

And then I just found too, like the composition in this one is just really incredible. Like the thinking of like when he's walking between the hedges, the way they, the way they like open a door in the hedges and like walk out to the, where the lake is. Um, the, the different, like we were talking about the different sizes of the tree, like how they, the, for one, there's like really great continuity between those.

Eli Price (01:27:43.35)
Like, now. Like, really. Like, I- After watching, and then knowing after watching, like, reading, oh, there's different, like, several different sizes of this tree in miniature and stuff. Like, I would have never guessed that. I wouldn't have either. I would have. I, like, I thought that it was, like, legitimately, like, them, like, using magnification and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, and, yeah, hey. Which reminds me of the magnifying glass in Henry Sugar.

That was another great little... Oh, yeah, that was. But yeah, great continuity with the tree, and really like a beautiful set piece. I guess there's several different ones since there's different sizes, but really beautifully like it looks like an illustration in a book. It does. Which is really cool. And also like is the...

I want to say there's probably a little bit of stop motion done with the silhouette of the kid of Peter Watson up in the tree. I think so, yeah. Puppet work or stop motion or something. And then, yeah, I think it's just really, really beautifully composed. I really like it. Yeah, the use of set work is.

very, uh, really good in it. Yeah. I don't know. There's a lot of, there's a lot of like, this one has a lot of extras kind of coming in and like handing props over or taking props or like coming in and tying the wings to him and all that kind of stuff. Um, what I, well, that's, uh, making me think of something else from Henry Sugar, uh, the scene where, uh, Ben Kingsley is, uh,

you know, telling his story, you know, narrating his story within the story as Khan. And, you know, he's supposed to be a younger man. So the makeup team comes in and starts doing his makeup to make him look younger within frame. It's great. Sorry. Yeah, so great. No, it's good. Cause there was, there's so much in Hennie Sugar where, you know, we're gonna miss some stuff. So it's good to jump back and catch that. Yeah. I thought Rupert Fran was just like a revelation in this room.

Eli Price (01:30:06.378)
in this role, like incredible. The two like standout things that I think of are when he stands up from, after the train goes over him, he stands up and like there's this moment, it's one of those moments of pause. And the way he like holds himself in that moment and his face and everything, it just communicates.

so much and just the grief of that memory, reliving that memory is just all captured in that short pause. And then the kid actor gives the next line to spur him back on, like, hey, you're supposed to be telling the story. And then he jumps back in and starts back into the narration. It's just like, it's an incredible moment. And then the other one is...

the delivery of the line where they're about to kill the swan. And he screams out, please don't do it, stop. And it's like, there's so much emotion in that delivery. It's so good. And so, man, Fran is just so great in this role. He is. It's between this and.

Ray finds the rat catcher of my favorite performance of all of these. I would have to agree. Yeah. But yeah, one thing that I also really appreciated about this rendition of the story, as opposed to reading the short story, that made it much sweeter and optimistic and kind of with hints of hope, is that it

To me, it had all these moments of grace and beauty built into it, both visually and delivery-wise and stuff like that. I wrote some of the ones that stood out was the woodpecker. It's a really cool little moment of grace. And then when he's laying there on the train tracks, the cloud and the plane.

Eli Price (01:32:29.042)
is like a moment of grace and beauty in the midst of a cruel, cruel experience that he's having. The swan signets in the nest. Yeah, the swan signets in the nest. Him seeing them and telling them that there's none there is like a moment of grace and mercy for the swans, the signets at least. I mentioned the way friend pauses is like this moment of like...

Um, I guess, I guess it's a moment of grace in the sense of like, he's like making room for like grief and like indicating that it's okay to in those moments, take a moment to, to reflect. Um, and then like, uh, the comp, like there's some comic moments that are like good relief. Like the, like I mentioned the, there's an extra.

And the friend as the narrating is like, uh, he fired the gun or something like that is the line and they all kind of pause and on the extras, like lifts his hands up, like he's holding a gun and goes, or something like that. And it's like, it's really, it's like laugh out loud, funny when it happens. Um, and that's kind of sometimes like those comic moments I think are like moments of grace in a cruel story like that.

that you kind of need. And even like, I think the decision to cut back to Roald Dahl, which is kind of in the text itself too. Because he kind of has like an aside within the source material where he like has this little aside of the story and then goes back to the way it ends. Honestly, I think it's word for word. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too.

And it's a really great, it's a really great, like it's a, it is graceful like to cut to him too visually because it's, it's when Peter's falling out of the tree and like to not show that and to have to all like have this aside and explain why the story is important. Um, is like to me is like a moment of grace. And so there's just so many of them all throughout this, this rendition of it that like,

Eli Price (01:34:56.79)
make it really in the end kind of a beautiful little story, like sad but beautiful and hopeful. Yeah, there is, there's, you know, it's, this one, we were talking about it, I think, last night, me, you and Robin, my wife, she, y'all were talking about how like the ending is like sad.

because me and you had read the story and she hadn't. And we were saying like, oh, you know, the mom checks on him and he's okay in the short story. Well, in the film, I hadn't remembered that it cuts before you really know if he's okay or not. Right. And you had mentioned, well, it is him as like an adult narrating the story. And so there's kind of like that implication there that he was okay.

Right. Because he survived and he's older now and the story. Yes. But that's like not explicit. And so like when this it cut, it's like it ends with them, with him delivering the line that the mom said of like, my dear, my dear little boy, what has what has happened to you? And then it cut like it fades. Yeah. And so like visually, it's like, oh, did he die? Yeah. But what? But I guess like, if you think about it, you're like, oh, no, he

He couldn't have because he's telling the story as an adult. Yeah but that's not it's more of an implicit thing than a explicit even because you know that line of like oh this happened to me so many years ago is just like You know just a line that's kind of thrown it. Yeah Yeah, it by the time you get to the end. It's all you can almost have forgotten about it. Yeah. Yeah for sure and so it does add to like the sadness of the movie which

I think there's a sense though in which like you can't really take a story like that and like make it happy. No. It would be like it wouldn't be, you know, we've been talking a lot about what's true. It wouldn't be true. It might be factual that everything turned out all right, but it wouldn't be true to the story. No. Because the truth of the story is it's very sad.

Eli Price (01:37:22.87)
that there's people in the world like that. And yeah, even with, and even with, you know, the way that Dal is telling the story versus, you know, whatever really happened with, you know, this miracle happening and him literally flying to safety. Yeah, he's still a little boy that got shot in the leg. Yeah, by, you know, bullies that treated him terribly all day. Yeah, that, I mean, like, trauma, like, it's like trauma. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. The way you're treated that way. Yeah, it's.

Even that, I really love the kind of fantastical moment of him flying, like people seeing him fly through the air, reports of people seeing a swan fly. It's really cool and fantastical. And I guess that in and of itself is a moment of grace and beauty in a sense. And again, it's the thing of that ecstatic truth.

Did he really fly through the air as with the swan wings tied to him? Maybe factually not, but like the deeper truth there is that he did. He, he, he soared through that trauma and that, that terrible experience and landed safely on the other side of it. Right. Um, so there is like, it's another instance of that ecstatic truth.

a deeper truth behind that goes deeper than just like the fact of the matter. Which I think is really cool. And then like we had talked about the side with Dahl, he has that line about unconquerable people. That's such a great line. It is. It's here. I didn't write down the exact quote, but it's something to the effect of there are people in this world that...

basically like don't bend when everything like bad is when there's like true like evil or badness coming up against them, they don't bend and they stand up to it and they come out on the other side of it. And he says that those are unconquerable people. And he says Peter was one of those people. And then it cuts back to the story. It's really, really cool and really, really powerful. I thought. Yeah.

Eli Price (01:39:51.358)
Yeah, this one is great. It's my second favorite of these, I think. I know you said it wasn't, but. It's hard to rank them. It really is. At least the three shorter three. It's very hard to rate them. But yeah, it is very good. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it was just emotionally very impactful to me.

I'm sure it comes across in the way I've been talking about it. The Ratcatcher, on the other hand, I didn't find very emotional at all, but very fun. Yes. Extremely fun. And this one, I think, out of all of them, is probably closest to exactly like the story. Very close, yeah. It's a.

I would say, too, it has the best literary descriptions of what you're seeing on screen. The matching of what you're seeing versus how it's written and how it's narrated is so in sync. It's so great. And a lot of that comes from Ray Fiennes as the rap man. I got these terrible like.

Rat teeth and like this. I don't know Like he obviously studied role doll and his mannerisms and rituals like this man must have watched a lot of rap videos Like i'm picturing like rayfons kicked back with a pipe in front of a fireplace in his robe With his phone watching rap videos on youtube. That's what i'm picturing But the

I mean, it's like, but it's like perfect. Like if it was Jared Leto, it would be terrible. Because that man would like really be trying too hard to be a rat. But with Ray Fiennes, it's just like, it's so like perfectly disturbing.

Eli Price (01:42:10.83)
But yeah, another thing just production-wise in this one, there's a lot of the camera doing what's being described. I think that's a little bit more done in this than in some of the other ones. The one example that comes to mind is when he's telling them about how to kill a sewer rat. And the camera ends up in the tunnel that is the sewer. And they're talking about, he's talking about the rat.

coming through the sewer and the camera kind of like comes through the, moves through the tunnel towards them who are looking like into it. And so like the camera's doing what's being described like from, I guess, the perspective of the rat. So there's several instances of that in this one that make that a kind of like, I don't think a unique feature. I like, I think that's in some of the other ones but it stood out more in this one to me, I guess. But yeah.

Ray Frenz as the rap man, it's between him and Rupert Friend as the best performance of this collection. For me, this is the best performance. This would probably be my second favorite, the more I think about it. Yeah. I really, really love this one. Yeah, it's great. His performance is incredible. And I think Ayoade is my favorite narrator. Him and Friend are my favorites, for sure. I would probably give the edge to Friend just because like...

The emotionality behind it is so good. But Ayoide, the way he delivers his dimp. Have you ever watched the IT crowd? I have. He is so great in that. He is. He's hilarious. It's a British sitcom about an IT department. Yeah, IT department of this office building. Very much British humor. But he's great.

That's the only other thing I really know him from I know I've seen him pop up in other things Yeah, that yeah, that's the main things I know him for too. Yeah But yeah, he the way he delivers the narration is like so good It's like he was made for that sort of thing But yeah, he the one of the things that stood like that stood out was his delivery of the line

Eli Price (01:44:34.486)
You've almost got to be a rat yourself. It's like I wrote down when I was watching, I wrote my notes that line had this really great, nervous energy to it. And it's perfect with the description of how the book describes the delivery of that line. Yes. Yeah. And when he says, oh, I.

I said it before I could even think about what I was coming out of my mouth. Yes. And it really does feel that way. But then the rat catcher takes that and runs with it. And it's like, oh, this guy is messed up. But yeah. Oh, another detail with him too that I really liked. This wasn't necessarily to do with him, more production design stuff, was when the day changes.

He sits back down at his editor's desk, and he has a clip-on tie. And he changes ties, I guess, to signify that the day changed, which I thought was a great detail. Yeah. I love the stop-motion rat. I do, too. And there's even a point where the rat man is talking about something, but the camera's on the stop-motion rat. And so the stop-motion rat's mouth is moving as if it's talking. Oh.

And it just even more sets up the synonymities, synonymousness, whatever word makes most sense there, of the rat man and a rat. Yes. Yeah. So great. Yeah, and then the showdown of the rat catcher and the rat. Right. Yes. Which.

Rupert Fram like puts in these rat teeth, these like little rat teeth and like plays the part of the rat that he's fighting. And it's like, there's these, so there's these like cutaway shots to doll. It's like a lot happening all at once. There's like these cutaway shots to doll. And then there's like these disoriented like horror like freeze frames cutting back and forth between finds and friends as like.

Eli Price (01:46:56.022)
the rat man and the rat fighting. It seems like they do up the rat makeup on Fiennes as well. Oh yeah, for sure. And it's even like the way it's lit, I don't know if it's actually black and white, but it has like, the way it's lit is kind of like, has a black and white feel. It's very, it seems like the lighting's very top down, so you get a lot of like shadows on the faces. Yes, mm-hmm. Yeah, very like, very like.

old-time horror, like lighting and all that. Very funny. Very, uh, like kids around a campfire holding flashlights. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, and even like, I noticed, um, watching around this time that the narration, the pace of Ayoade's narration quickens, like during that sequence. Um, really great. It's just like, just like top-notch

Absolutely. But yeah, this and to me this story, it just kind of feels like a strange tale. Like all the other ones kind of have a moral of it and like are meaningful in a way. And this one to me is just kind of like, that's a really interesting, strange tale. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like not every story has to have a moral. Sure. And so I appreciate that. Like.

out of the four, like, he just did one that's like, weird. Yeah. I don't know if you felt that way. Maybe you saw a mortal in there. I don't know that I saw a mortal in there necessarily. I do see some strange theming with, and I think I had mentioned this to you the first time I had watched it. I feel like Ray finds the way they dress, I feel like they made him look

like a grungy version of Wes himself. Like even I've like, I went back and looked it up just to like make sure that like the visuals in my head were right. And like you can find pictures of Wes Anderson wearing that outfit almost instantly. The brown like with the pockets and stuff. Yeah, yeah, now that you say that. And I don't know, there's just something about the Rat Catcher as a character where his whole driving

Eli Price (01:49:23.73)
uh, his like driving, like notion in life is like trying, like he comes in to this petrol station where they've got the rat problem and he wants to like, you know, make a big show out of, oh, I'm here to deal with your, you know, your rat problem. And I'm going, I'm going to impress you. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to show you how good I am at catching and killing these rats. And I'm going to, you know, I'm really going to make a spectacle out of it.

And then when his first plan fails, he's like, do you want to see something even more amazing? Do you want to see- And disturbing. Yes. And then like, I don't know, there's just like a showmanship to the rap man that I really, I don't know. I think there's something there. It's like a really strange Wes Anderson stand in. Like, I'm going to impress you one way or another. I'm going to show you something you've never seen before. And maybe even lose some of the audience with how weird I get.

And there's even a line that I mean, it's in the book too, where the rat catcher, like his very last trick, like the showdown with the rat, he like tries to get them to bet with him. Yeah, he's like, Oh, you're gonna make me do this for like this tiny amount of money. Really? Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, I didn't think of any of that. But yeah, that's a really fun take. I like that. Yeah, the

That's the Rat Catcher. Poison is the last of the four. And I would say it's my least favorite, but I really like it a lot. I like it a lot, too. So it's hard to say any of them are my least favorite. It's just like, if I had to rank them, it would probably be last.

Which is funny, I actually would rank them in the order they came out, now that I think about it. But yeah, it's a really good story. It is. Patel is the narrator in this one as Supervisor Woods or Timber Woods, what you mentioned earlier, which I didn't even remember that. And I.

Eli Price (01:51:42.454)
think that Patel is the fastest narrator by far. That man is saying so many words so quickly. It's impressive. It's very impressive. It's the hardest one to keep up with. I can't imagine how many takes it took for them to get through that, through his incidents individually. I bet they, Wes is like, so when I was doing the Wes series last year.

Like he's not the sort of director that does a ton of takes. Like they get things nailed down, and then they do a few takes, and then they're done. And a lot of that, too, is just because, I guess, a lot of that is because a lot of directors, they'll get different takes with different angles and stuff for their editors to work with. But Wes is so like pre-planned, all that stuff. Like he knows exactly how he wants it to look. So they just.

He's not bothering to shoot from other angles. Yeah, they do the one shot, because he knows that's the one they're going to use. And so that's probably part of it. For sure. But they do. He does, from what I can gather, he's not a dude that's going to do a ton of takes, like a Kubrick or somebody that is trying to break their actors. But yeah. Yeah, I mean.

It had to have taken a lot of stuff. Um, it's funny. One of the, um, uh, interview I was reading, um, the guy asked about, uh, when Benedict covered back at batch as Henry sugar, like goes off camera and comes back with the facial hair or something. Um, he was like, that was a lot of makeup to do. Like the gel, the gel, like, uh, actually do that in real time. Or did you like trick?

And Wes Anderson kind of laughs and he's like, or like, I read the interview. So it's just like laughs in parentheses and, um, uh, and says, we might've done a little, uh, a little, uh, tightening of that, um, which, you know, it's the magic of filmmaking, the editing, um, but yeah, one thing, uh, I noticed, uh, at the very beginning of this.

Eli Price (01:54:05.398)
That is another example of like kind of an ode to writing and like reading even is, so I think it happens in other ones too, but this is the, when it happened here, I've noticed it very prominently. So, Deftels Woods is driving up to the house and he gets out of the car.

And he's, you know, he's narrating all along. And then the scene, like the, it cuts to him, like on the porch, but he's just standing there, not talking, but you still hear the narration from the last scene. He's talking and he finishes his line from that last shot. And then the guy on screen that you're seeing that hasn't been talked, like moving his mouth, then picks up with the next line.

and continues narration. And I was like, when I was watching that, I was like, he turned the page. It's like a visual cinematic representation of turning the page. I don't know if he actually thought of that, but that's what it made me think of when I was watching it. And so I just thought that was really cool. And yeah.

So that was cool. Another little thing of maybe this is something like that is just like being an ode to writing and reading books and stuff. I thought that was cool. Cumberbatch is in this one as Harry Pope, which is kind of a funny name. What's really incredible about Cumberbatch in this one is he's mostly acting with his eyes in the corners of his mouth. Yes. Like for.

I would say 90% of this, he's just laying there, like twitching his eyes in the corners of his mouth. He does a great job. It's great. It's so good. This one is my wife's favorite of the four, which is funny because it was my least favorite. But again, it's like, there's not that far of a remove between all of them. But it's funny because she's like,

Eli Price (01:56:31.726)
uh, very much not into like suspense and like, and this is medical stuff. And this is the most suspenseful and, and like full of medical stuff. And so when it finished and she was like, that was my favorite one. I was like, wow, this is like really movie magic going on right now. But yeah, it's, uh, it is exciting. It's it, it is an exciting one because.

Um, in a different way than the rat catcher because there are, there's like way higher stakes, I guess, um, you know, he has the crate so-called apparently on his stomach, um, and, uh, yeah, I thought Benedict Cumberbatch was so good in this. Um, there's, uh, it's probably one of the other like standout performances. It's funny because I think like the three best performances are

are in the three extra shorts. Not to say that the performances in Henry Sugar are bad, but maybe it's just like the tightness of these make the performance really stand out, I guess. But yeah, I don't know, maybe. But yeah, I love some of the things I wrote down that I love here. There's the quick flash cuts back and forth

Dr. Ganterbhai and Harry Pope, when Dr. Ganterbhai is thinking, like, don't spoil this, there's like the... like, cuts. Which I loved Ben Kingsley in this, I thought his... I don't know, his intensity in this was really great. Yeah, his stare in that... those cuts was like... he really, like... he was really letting the camera have it. Uh-huh. Yeah, I...

I love like, so there's the point in the actual short story where he's pulling down, they're pulling down the cover slowly and he notices the button on his trousers and how it's made of ivory and he's never even had trousers that had a button much less one made of ivory. And he kind of like, it's way more condensed here in the West short, but he does notice that.

Eli Price (01:58:58.69)
really funny to end that moment of such intensity to notice the button on the guy's trousers. Yeah. I liked going back to the, being told things but not seeing them on screen, the idea that they supposedly just soaked him with chloroform, but everything's perfectly dry as they're pulling the blanket off him.

Yeah, that's true. And I feel like if there was a bed full of chloroform, people would be pretty woozy. Yeah. Oh, like everyone in the room. And they were not. Which they're not in the story either. So maybe I just don't know medically how that works. But yeah. I wouldn't want to be laying in a bed full of chloroform. I wouldn't take that. I'll tell you that.

Eli Price (01:59:58.046)
Oh, yeah, there's the camera work. So it basically switches to a very obviously handheld camera when Cumberbatch jumps up out of the bed after they pull the covers back, which I thought was a smart move, I guess just camera wise to portray the intensity of that moment.

Eli Price (02:00:27.506)
Yeah, and then, I don't know, was there anything else like kind of production wise that you liked in this one? Uh, yeah. It's pretty standard. It's just like basically in a room. There's not a whole lot like with the set going on in this one. There is and there isn't, because you've got like, um, like the whole set is basically like a house that's been cut in half, it seems like. Sure. So like you get, like you get one scene where, uh,

Eli Price (02:00:57.75)
Timber Woods is like outside on the porch and Dr. Ganderby is like in the hallway and Harry Pope is in the bedroom and you can see all three in their respective places at the same time and then I don't know just like the camera work with like the way you know you like you feel like you're being suspended from the ceiling looking down at them at different points and I don't know there is some stuff like that.

Eli Price (02:01:27.054)
typical West stuff. There wasn't like new technique. It was, I mean, you have that, all that sort of stuff going all the way back to like Tenenbaums and Life Aquatic with the dollhouse effect. And so I guess that's maybe what I was thinking of is like, there's not like these new like sets moving around kind of stuff happening so much in this one like there was in, which I guess Rat Catcher is similar in that way.

this and Ratcatcher more like typical West Fair as far as like the set design and stuff like that. Yeah. And then with the Swan and Henry Sugar, you have more of like that stage production feel as far as like the way that the set moves and changes. Definitely. I guess these still do have like a stage production feel, but a much more static one. Yeah.

Yeah, like you said, a lot more stuff that he's done in the past. Right, right. And so, yeah, you know, I like this one. It just, like... It wasn't... It just didn't feel as inventive to me, I guess, is why I appreciated some of the other ones more. But I did really love the way this one ended. I did too. Yeah, and I kind of hinted at this earlier.

when we were talking about it. But in this story, I wanna say, so when he goes out to the car, Woods is walking with Dr. Ganderbhai, and he kind of says something about being sorry about the way he acted, he must be whatever. And then Dr. Ganderbhai in the short story just kind of says he needs a vacation.

And that's all that happens. Well, West changes those exchanges a little bit in this one. And there's two prominent exchanges that kind of portray different things going on here. So obviously, Pope leaps up and is angry and offended.

Eli Price (02:03:45.638)
And like somewhat like understandably so, because he's been like laying still for so long. Anyone would be like angry and grumpy in that situation. But what comes out is like blatant racism. And it's that way in the book too, in the short and Doll's short story. And I think Doll is condemning that in the way he writes it. But the way- I agree.

Yeah, but the way Wes does it is, I wouldn't say more explicit, but more, I guess, modern, more aware of what needs to be said. Because it's still not explicit. It's not like in Wes's version, he's like, that was racist. But there's the two line delivery. For one, um.

Wood says to Ganterbaai, he owes you his life. And Ganterbaai says, no, he doesn't. Right. And that's kind of like, there's the fact there that he doesn't because there wasn't actually a crate. Right. But there's also like the deeper truth that we've been talking about going on of like, he doesn't. Just that deeper truth of like, there's no. Yeah. I don't even know how to express it. He doesn't owe me his life.

And I don't owe him mine. There's, there's no, there's kind of a rift there, I guess, in a sense, because of the way that he was treated. But then, um, what's, this is the one that really stood out to me was a woods tells Gander by I'm sorry. And getting her by says, you can't be. Yeah. And that was the one where I was like, wow, that's, that's where

Wes has a more full and modern, I guess, understanding of racism and what it is. And even I wrote down, there's, let me read it so I don't mess it up. It's, it feels like he's grappling with how far your empathy can go for someone that hasn't actually been in those shoes. So like.

Eli Price (02:06:07.958)
to for me as a white, you know, lower middle class, lower middle class American to like say to, you know, black American that's actually experienced racism, right in their life, for me to say like, Oh, I'm sorry. It's like, I can't be like, I haven't experienced it. Like my empathy can only go so far. I can have those conversations with

with people that have experienced that, things that I have not experienced, and I can do my best to understand, but there's only so far that my empathy can go. And I think there's, all of that is packed into those two lines. I'm sorry, you can be. Yeah, that, for me, that's kind of the most powerful like standout line, I think of like, of the four. Yeah, like with what you were like.

I guess kind of like my I feel about that line like the way you did it like with the swan I was like, oh, that's like I really took something out of it. Yeah It's probably right there with it for sure It was really powerful. It was and it delivered like very Powerfully like it's not like overly dramatically delivered, but all the emotion is still there from Kingsley

Eli Price (02:07:37.702)
I really, really liked that. But yeah, that's all of them. Yeah. We talked through all of them. Did you have any final thoughts on these overall? Or? Ah.

Eli Price (02:07:55.882)
I don't know. I don't know that he has plans to do more, but I would love for him to do more of these. We'll do that in a second. But my final thought, I just felt like the overall effect of the way these are made and shown and portrayed is just, it's like these are being actively made in front of you because of all the movement and motion and the narration and the sets and.

people coming on and handing things, and showing some things and not showing things, the lighting changes, just all of it. Like, he's actively making the movie on screen. It's not like you're watching a movie that's already been made. It's like you're watching the act of the movie being made, which is just so incredible to me. It really is. And.

It just, to me, it feels like Wes is inviting you both to enjoy the story, but also to enjoy the filmmaking itself, which is very unique. And to me, it comes from a place of an artist that loves the art of storytelling and loves the art of filmmaking so much that they want to share that with you. And it just is overflowing out of every frame to me.

And I just love that about all four of these shorts. And to me, it's just like a really wonderful thing when an artist is so in love with what they're doing that they can't help but just like, but like both in this case, I think pushing the envelope of what the medium can do, which I think Wes really is doing here. It's something I've never seen on screen before.

Maybe someone more well-versed in film than me would be like, no, there's this or this. But definitely mainstream, pushing the envelope. But also pushing the envelope of what the medium is capable of, and then also inviting the audience to enjoy and go along in that endeavor with him, just because he's doing it right there on screen in front of you.

Eli Price (02:10:23.606)
so that you can see what's going on. I just really loved that. I did, too. And that was kind of my main overall overarching takeaway, I guess, from these four shorts. But yeah, we've talked about how we would each rate these four. Did you place these within Wes's overall? I did.

Um, while you pull it up, I'll say, so I, I currently have Asteroid City and Henry Sugar sitting at like six and seven in his filmography. And then these, the other shorts are kind of like kind of just gathered there in like the lower tier, I would say. Um, of his, not because I don't like him just, but obviously I really like them. I just really kind of love everything West does. Yeah. So.

Even my least favorite, West, is probably like, I like more than most other stuff. But yeah, I really, really thought Henry Sugar was phenomenal. I did too. And it's like, any given day, it could probably move up. Yeah, I've got Henry Sugar right below Darjeeling Limited as a BLEEP.

Henry Sugar being like number eight for me. And then, let's see, Rat Catchers number 11, right under Rushmore. I feel like we have very different Wes Anderson rankings, which I found to be the case. Because especially when I was doing that series, I always kind of do this at the end of.

the talk with all the guests. And everyone seems to kind of have different rankings all over the place of Wes's films, even to the point where I even had someone that were at the Darjeeling Limited, I think, was their favorite, which is like most people's least favorite. So it's just all over the place. Yeah. And they're all great to me. They are. But yeah, I really like it.

Eli Price (02:12:47.634)
I did read in an interview earlier today, actually. I pulled up, I found an interview that someone had done with Wes after these came, either before or after these came out. And I asked about future stuff. He said that when, before the writer's strike started, he had just finished a script with Roman Coppola.

That they were gonna make with Benicio del Toro. Oh, okay that they're planning on making he said so when the timing is right well, well do we're gonna the plan next is to do that and Like he wouldn't give any other details other than the script is finished. He wrote it with Coppola and Benicio del Toro is gonna start it. So hey, that's something to look forward to, you know There'll be another episode in the future

for the Wes Anderson series. I'm excited. Yeah, me too. But as far as what's next with the podcast, we are going to be doing an early Steven Spielberg series. Coming up, I know at some point in February, the first episode of that series is going to release. I'm just not sure when. There might be a couple of other.

uh, non like series episodes before that comes out. Um, so I'll, I might do like, uh, my favorite films of 2023, uh, coming up soon, um, I think, uh, I just watched, uh, my neighbor Totoro with, uh, with my son. Uh, you got him the Totoro book for Christmas. Um, there's a, there's a novelization of it. And, um, so I wanted him to watch the movie before the book, since that's how they.

came to be. So we watched the movie, and he loved it. So I might do a little bonus episode review with him on Totoro. He's in love with Cat Bus, as he should be. Yes. But I'll let him. You'll have to wait till that episode to hear from him about it. So that might come out. But I am excited.

Eli Price (02:15:07.922)
I've been working on some guests for the Spielberg series, kind of lining up, scheduling all that. So I'm working on it, it's coming soon. I'm really looking forward to it. It'll be the first series I've done where I have blind spots within the series. So I'll be watching some of these for the first time. Yeah, I'm looking forward to catching up with some things to listen along. Yeah, I've actually been in the process of watching a lot of his early like TV stuff. So.

I'm like in the middle of his episode of Columbo that he directed and stuff like that. So yeah, and they're all actually like really well directed for a 23, 25 year old. So yeah, I'm looking forward to this series. I'm doing early West. So it's 70s and 80s. Spielberg. Yeah, sorry. I'm West. This is West. I got West brain. But yeah, I'm doing early Spielberg 70s and 80s. So and then.

I might You never know I might just keep going with Spielberg or I might take a break move to a different director and then come back To spill very later. He just has a lot of movies He does so it's kind of daunting to commit to do a full-on Spielberg series, but uh, but yeah, that's kind of what's coming up and We are gonna do a movie draft What I might do to

This is me doing a live on air podcast production talk. I've been thinking about splitting up the movie drafts from the main content of the episode. So the movie draft might come out with this episode or I might release it the next week. And that gives me more, that way I'm still putting stuff out for you guys every week, but it also gives me more time to.

I'm a one man show. So it gives me more time to like make sure the podcast is well produced. Gives time to like fix mistakes when stuff goes wrong with the technology. Cause I've had some moments of like panic when something was like not going right with the recording or something. And so, so yeah. So probably what'll be happening is my series related shows will be coming out.

Eli Price (02:17:34.462)
every other week and then I'll make sure to have something, whether it's a review or a movie draft or something coming out in between every week. So be looking forward to that, but we are going to do a shorts movie draft, short film movie draft. So either stick around and we'll be back or wait till next Friday and you'll get the short films movie draft.

Uh, but, uh, it's been good, uh, since I might be releasing, uh, the movie drafts later. Do you want to go ahead and share, um, right now your, maybe your, I know letter box is probably really the only place where you would care for people to follow you or like interact with people, you know? Yeah. Um, uh, do you know what your, I know you're

Chase are you like Chables on there or it might be? It's hard to a great question. It's really hard to find Luckily, I yes. Yes. I am he's Chables. Yes. Yes Yeah, so you can look them up on letterbox to follow them there You do a lot of logging you do a little bit of you every once in a while every now and then I need to get Better. I need to get better at actually like writing out at least like a couple of sentences. Yes I thought on everything that I do. It's a good habit

Yeah, it helps you kind of solidify your thoughts and how you felt about a movie. I do a lot of logging and I make a lot of lists. Yeah, just randomly. Lists are fun. I have way too many lists. I have so many lists. But even if you forgot already his username, it'll be in the show notes. So yeah, just open the show notes. There'll be a link that you can click on. But yeah, that's it for our Wes Anderson.

And once again, we are done with Wes Anderson. Yeah, that was the last Wes Anderson. Oh, yeah. As of now. As of right now. Yeah. But we do know there's another on the way. So be looking forward to that. Be looking forward to the short films movie draft. Be looking forward to my son's review of My Neighbor Totoro, and especially the Spielberg series coming up. Really excited. So.

Eli Price (02:19:57.307)
Yeah, I appreciate you guys listening and we will see you again real soon.